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American Rugby Cup Championship 2009
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Posted 2 years ago -
Toothlesstiger
ModeratorI am sure that I am not the only punter on this site to notice that Canada [R.C. & the HPP]are the only participating nation to have a real competition upon which we put forward our winning regional[provincial] side to challenge for the Championship.
Whichever of these two teams the Bears or the Blues will be taking the field against either Argentina's national "A" team the Jaguars or in the unlikely event the US Eagles (Select) "A" team.
Now the first thing that jumps to mind of all you bravehearts out there is "bring them on!!!" . And there is nothing wrong with that sentiment.
I recall quite vividly the last time Ontario took on the same Jaguars. That was in 1997 in the northern city of Salta. They had their way with us in the 1st half with a half time score of 35 -0. The "Boys in Blue" that day dug down deep, and because it was the final game of a 5 game tour through Washington D.C., Uruguay and two other tests in Argentina, Ontario was carrying a considerable number of injuries. When it came to the second half and we had run out of bona fide reserves and we had to resort to switching jerseys of players we had already subbed with those that we did not have warm bodies for.
We did not win the game, but Ontario kept them off the score sheet in the second half and we made the result a respectable one.
The tour party and team Captain expressed his appreciation to our host and their Board of directors by mooning them as they de-board their plane at Beunos Aires the following day.
Can we pull off a win on such a non level playing field, Province vs National squads? Perhaps, but it would be a bit more level if we were to draw the US Eagles in such a final.
I would suspect that while our players have benefited from our play off format we will have at both National and Provincial levels had to put much more of our limited cash in the pot in order to get to this supposedly prestigious American Championship of what? Regional, provincial or national "A" teams, kind of like a Fall version to some degree of a Churchill Cup where Canada is being given the opportunity to redeem them selves by playing as a Canada Select vs the Jaguars in Chatham Kent.
Is this program for real and will all parties return to the table next year? Will the format be re-jigged? And, will the bums in seats give a dam about coming out to the games next year?
Posted 2 years ago # -
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Posted 2 years ago -
OnRugby
MemberThe IRB is funding the competition so it will be back next year and you can expect to see the same 4 teams in Canada. IRB has already talked about adding countries suck as Mexico and Uruguay. Not word on whether this will happen next year.
Not sure why US and Argentina did not also have a local competition like Canada but it is safe to say that this is what the IRB wants as it mimics the existing league structure in Europe (i.e. domestic leagues with the top teams then playing in an international champions league).
I remeber reading an article that mentioned the US had reorganized its rugby structure into 4 regions. The Blues played the mid-west Thunderbirds in a preseaon match. Perhaps we will see 4 teams in the US next year.
Posted 2 years ago # -
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Posted 2 years ago -
rusty_lock
MemberI was disappointed too that the americans and argentinians did not have any competition to determine their representitive. It kind of stacks the deck for the final but wouldn't it be a coup if BC, after dispatching Ontario next week, took the argentinian scalp.
Posted 2 years ago # -
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Posted 2 years ago -
Toothlesstiger
Moderatorrust-lock, I like your style and confidence. Time will tell and all will be revealed, Bears or Blues going for the scalp.
OnRugby, you have a touch of Richmond Hill about you and your posts. Could be our smooth tricky Nick or the young crosse kid behind this Nome de plume! However I cannot agree with the following:
"it is safe to say that this is what the IRB wants as it mimics the existing league structure in Europe (i.e. domestic leagues with the top teams then playing in an international champions league)."
In all such competitions it is like playing like,the same level of player & team development and not the cross over we have here of National "A" or "Select" vs bona fide Provincial or Regional teams.
You are not suggesting the next season that it would acceptable that N.Z. could opt to play New Zealand "A" in the Super 14 say in place of their usual 4 franchised sides, to play all 10 other teams in Australia and South Africa?
We know that would "not fly" so why have the iRB and the rest of the ARC Championship foisted this half ar...d tournament on us.
With Argentina being part of the TRI - Nations as of 2012 we can then reasonably anticipate the Argentina wanting to be part of the Super 14 as opposed to playing in our "kitty litter" tournament of Mexico, Uruguay, Chile, USA and Canada. A watered down Para Tournament
Once again Canada, in order to get this level of competition have had to compromise the Finals in this tawdry manner.
Oops, I just remembered, this is an iRB / Rugby Canada event and so the previous "Family " pass offered by Rugby Ontario & the Blues will not apply to the upcoming ARC championship game at Fletchers.
Instead of the Family (two adults and two kids for $25.00) it will be for the same family 2 x $20.00 + 2 x $10.00 for the tidy day out at Fletchers of $60.00. That will boost growth in the game and the attendance numbers!!!
Nick & Graham, you have to stand up to those iRB bureaucrats and drive home the real difference between promoting rugby in North America vs say Oz or Ireland where such prices would not cause them to bat an eye-lid.
Here our goal is to get more people, parents and players to latch onto the excitement of the game. gate money of this magnitude, $60.00 for the double header will not cut it with the paying punters and their kids.
The marketing strategy is for the Kids to nag their parents into bringing them, the family to the Finals.
Rugby Canada and the high & mighty iRB need the parents bums in paid for seats, perhaps a $35.00. family pass would not have hurt the iRB image and their event, ARC.
Posted 2 years ago # -
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Posted 2 years ago -
OnRugby
Membertoothlesstiger, well I live in richmond hill so that ceartainly has an impact on my thoughts and ideas. I am not associated with anybody in the rugby community. I am just a fan who enjoys going over to FF to catch the games. In fact I have only been a fan for a couple of years. Being a more recent fan I think I am a little more optimistic than some of the others here who have been fans for a long time. Give me a couple of years and I'm sure I will probably become just a cynical as the next guy.
I agree with your points above. The competition is in its first year though and you have to give it some room to evolve. It certainly has it challenges and the imbalance in the teams competing in the international stage is right at the forefront. Having said that it is a step forward from the NA4 and RCSL that preceded it.
I hadn't thought about the Argentina issue. What happens if they go to the TriNations? You're right they probably wan't want to still be in ARC.
Myself, I like the domestic part of this competition and I am hoping they add a couple more games next year. Having 4 teams playing in a round robin, I think, has been beneficial to canada and as such I think we have benefited much more from ARC than the US.
Posted 2 years ago # -
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Posted 2 years ago -
rusty_lock
MemberI'm not sure that Argentina wont want to be part of ARC after 2012. They can certainly use it as a development tool.
Posted 2 years ago # -
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Posted 2 years ago -
Toothlesstiger
ModeratorOnrugby & rusty-lock I would like this to develop into a home and away format domestically.
I would welcome Argentina to continue to participate but as either a provincial championship winner or like here in Canada regional team. Argentina has a five division of provincial teams ( 26 provinces in total).
It would definitely be a benefit to the other Latin American nations along with Mexico to participate.
The US seems to have a different set of problems with either putting forward a Super League winner or a regional winner. It has been an ongoing issue with the US player availability, it kind of requires the rest of us to gear this kind of competition in the Fall. That is not good from an Ontario point of view, with bums in seats and to conflict with our own McCormick Cup Championship. Fans will only turn out so often regardless of the domestic competition.
There has been a fair bit of grumbling by the Ontario clubs who have given players to the Blues. With the intense preparation these same players have had to be released frequently from club duty. The punter's and the Blues management retort / position on this point is that elsewhere around the World all clubs who have the honour to yield up their players should be in a position to promote replacements from their player depth chart (their 2nds)
Getting back to the choice of the time slot for this competition does clash with the annual departure of many of the R.O. major clubs lose the major part of that same player depth chart to the university or community college programs.
The only issue that we in Ontario will not have to concern ourselves with will the bums in seats. It is most unlikely that Ontario and Fletcher's will be asked to host the 2010 ARC Championship. However,our Canadian Play-offs will see the Blues with either one or a possible second home game if they should once again go to the Canadian play-offs.
The other issue of releasing the players from their club duty still present R.O., the Blues management,the clubs and their players with the same conflicts.
Now I have to fly my personal colours and wish the Blues a "Big Win" over the Bears and come home to Fletcher's to see if we can get revenge on the Argies and their 1997 win over Ontario in Salta, Argentina.
Go BLUES GO ALL the WAY.
Posted 2 years ago #
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