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BC vs Rock.

(39 posts)
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    Posted 9 months ago

  2. rucknmaul
    Member

    I was at the game yesterday and kudos to both sides for putting on a great display of attacking rugby. For BC, this Bears team was almost a completely different team than last years with the exception of a few guys. For the Rock it was virtually the same team as last year minus O'toole, Sinclair and Hearn.

    What I took away from the game was that the Rock looked just a bit slower and more gassed than last year and I think it's time to start looking for some new blood. Rod Snow, Peter Densmore, Sean O'Leary, Geoff Warden, Tyler Wish, Dean Blanks, Morgan Williams have been the core for a very long time. I think maybe they're just getting a little long in the tooth.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  4. BCLock
    Member

    Great game to watch. Nathan Hirayama was definitely man of the match, can't wait to see him against the US.

    In general I thought BC's forwards provided great ball and outworked their bigger opponents, and the backs were more creative, which lead to tries. Looking forward to the Ontario Blues game!

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  6. Son of Heavy
    Member

    Rock this, and Rock that. Got whomped by a team starting a lock from the third tier of BC rugby (Chisholm) and a guy who played sporadic games for Burnaby's 2nd side (mantle) in the engine room. As well as a 20-minute a game supersub for the lomas (hamner) and a guy who is probably the 4th best prop on his club (mackenzie). No disrespect to any of these guys as they are more than capable at this level...but I'd love to hear the Cod Pumpers spin this one?

    I'll save you the trouble: for every hearn, o'toole and sinclair missing from the rock's lineup, there were 5 or so 'star' bc guys not in the lineup. Why are we letting these guys hold us ransom for inclusion at every table again?

    Half the team's from elsewhere but they still feature the isle of NFLD as their symbol?

    glorybee! the funk's on me!

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  8. slackarse
    Member

    Oh, PUHLEEAAASE, Son of Heavy. You're WAY over the top here. Sounds very much like an extreme over-reaction.

    I used to read your posts somewhat attentively, assuming you knew what you were talking about.

    But really, this post of yours pisses me off, royally.

    There's so much in your short post to take issue with. I don't want to begrudge the Bears due credit for a satisfying victory (after last year's debacle), but your NASTY post compels me.

    "... for every hearn, o'toole and sinclair missing from the rock's lineup, there were 5 or so 'star' bc guys not in the lineup" ?

    I call Bullshit!

    You've got 15 more players you could swap in to the Bears line-up and achieve the same result? I don't buy that. Not for a second.

    This is the worst result the Rock has had against BC in a decade. Don't make it out to be a complete vindication of BC rugby. It's not. The Rock clearly had a bad game (notwithstanding their aging players).

    There's a very distinct tone in your post both of resentment and glee that the Bears put a pasting on the Rock.

    The mighty BC rugby Corps should ALWAYS put a TOTAL pasting on ANY team from Newfoundland, (with its 4 rugby clubs, our population, climate and playing season), even when that Rock team is reinforced with 2 players from NS & NB (O'Toole and Sinclair), a duo of ex-pat Welshmen (Blanks and Lovell), and a couple of refugees from BC (Wish and Warden) ... who seem to prefer our island to yours.

    You say "Half the team's from elsewhere but they still feature the isle of NFLD as their symbol?"

    Well, you're wrong on the "half the team" bit, but even if, ... so what? You have a problem with us having a team identity and team spirit?

    Are ALL b.c. rugby players home-grown, native-born, pur-laine? How 'bout the WolfPack's line-up (and coaching staff)?

    Call me a "Cod Pumper" if you will (and in this pissant modern Canada that we have to put up with these days, I probably have grounds for taking you before some damn-fool politically correct Human Rights Tribunal for the slur ... but of course I won't - 'cause I was a loose-head, and we don't settle differences of opinion that way.)

    You say "no disrespect to any of these guys," - referring to the "no-name" BC players - but you're obviously trying to make the point that a bunch of third-rate BC players were able to (help) knock off the "mighty" Rock.

    No concern whatever on your part for palpable disrespect of the Rock players.

    It's almost laughable : mighty BC, which has proprietary rights to the name, and the game of rugby, in Canada, crowing about putting a once-in-a-decade pasting on the team from ... Newfoundland? That little island over on the east coast, with a half-million population? Where rugby is played pretty much solely on the Avalon Peninsula ... the capital city area?

    Maybe the Bears coach selected those guys 'cause in HIS opinion they're all up-and-comers?

    Yes, we in Nfld. are shocked and disappointed by the scoreline ... but you're pretty damn quick to forget the 19-13 scoreline in the Rock vs. Canada Selects game earlier this season.

    This game's scoreline is a complete aberration from recent years. Maybe BC is finally taking the CRC seriously, instead of taking its ball and running home. Your excuse in recent years has been that your clubs didn't "buy in" to the Super League, or to last year's inaugural CRC arrangement.

    Maybe you've finally decided you can't ignore rugby in the rest of the country, and to regain some pride finally put up a team approximating the best you have to offer.

    For our part ... we're eagerly looking forward to the rematch Aug. 27 at Swilers' Pitch in St. John's.

    We'll see then if there'll be a 24-point margin between these two teams.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  10. BCLock
    Member

    Honestly, the better team won. Anyone who was there, will tell you the Bears outplayed the Rock. That's all there is to it. However, I am curious (and nervous) to see what happens when all our teams' RWC players leave.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  12. newbie
    Member

    I am sure the rematch at Swilers will be much much closer. I understand the airhorns are selling quickly in St Johns.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  14. irishlock
    Member

    slackarse said:
    The mighty BC rugby Corps should ALWAYS put a TOTAL pasting on ANY team from Newfoundland, (with its 4 rugby clubs, our population, climate and playing season), even when that Rock team is reinforced with 2 players from NS & NB (O'Toole and Sinclair), a duo of ex-pat Welshmen (Blanks and Lovell), and a couple of refugees from BC (Wish and Warden) ... who seem to prefer our island to yours.

    I don't want to burst your bubble but this Rock team is in fact the Atlantic Rock and representative of QC, NS, NB, PEI and NL. You talk of not disrespecting players, but then go on to effectively say its just a NL team, which if you look a the squad listing is not the case.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  16. rucknmaul
    Member

    Son of Heavy, you are way off base insulting BC as well as Rock players. Mackenzie at prop has started two straight BC finals games and Hamner is a quality prop from Wales I believe. The BC locks are definitely up and comers and were up to the task. Based on their performance they may see more rep level games.

    As for the Rock, it is absolutely incredible how they can compete with their small player base and difficult demographics. As per my earlier post, I noted they looked a touch slower than last year, but I think the heat may have been a factor. With Hirayama, Trainor, Kleeberger and Hamilton gone for the rematch, and the revenge factor, I predict the Rock will beat BC handily later this month.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  18. Hollywood
    Member

    irishlock said:
    I don't want to burst your bubble but this Rock team is in fact the Atlantic Rock and representative of QC, NS, NB, PEI and NL. You talk of not disrespecting players, but then go on to effectively say its just a NL team, which if you look a the squad listing is not the case.

    BTW, how do they work this for players from outside province? How do they get scouted, etc.?

    Posted 9 months ago #

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    Posted 9 months ago

  20. irishlock
    Member

    Bit off topic, but this year there were games between NL, NS, NB and QC so effectively players get looked at in this environment in addition to the Rock pre-season fixtures.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  21. Faust
    Moderator

    Two of three stars of the Rock who did not play were from NB, not NL.
    I must say that it PO me when NL crew talk about the Rock, they talk about just Newfoundland.
    You are lucky to have a great man Parfrey dedicated to support local rugby and his sons fill your ranks. NB which has less structure than NL (aka no former National Coach or resources to push them) put two players on the national team and two hopefully premiere rugby overseas.

    You speak how people diminish the NL side (which is actually an Atlantic Provinces side with Quebec), but forget the rest of the provinces who make up your side.

    Personally I like them to change the name & logo that respects the rest of the provinces and have games in the other provinces also.

    AS you say the Rugby is not all about BC, but the Rock is not all about NL.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  22. newbie
    Member

    Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the strong and mighty "Rock" fly in two or three players from BC last year to play in the championship of the CRC last year?

    Posted 9 months ago #

  23. Faust
    Moderator

    Again the Rock have done a wonderful job energizing the sport in the East Coast and we should not knock their accomplishments. Same can be said about Saskatchewan.

    But the last time I looked at my passport, it said Canada. Not Newfoundland or BC.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  24. Son of Heavy
    Member

    "Send the Rock to the World Cup, they beat Canada Selects, plus they really came together as a team and all really care about NFLD, and Parfrey cured polio and they all have secret Dany Williams tattoos, and Harold Druken is the greatest NHLer ever, etc." - The Cod Plodders

    Congrats on getting beat by the Meralomas bench, 4 or 5 players selected for the world cup who only played because they were mandated to by RC (Hiriyama/Kleeburger had played very few games over the past year), the Burnaby Lakers who are able to get around the city and of course the Giant Ogopogo himself Liam Chisholm.

    Slackarse, I'm really impressed by the outpouring of support by the Rockettes faithful. Remember though, nobody on here from BC is trumpeting and crowing and saying that Some Mosgau, Aaron Goddard, Jake Hirst et al. should be sent to NZ as Canada's entry into the World Cup. That is really why I took such glee from the Kollapse at Klahanie. Heck, I say we send 'em all over there! All's fair I say!

    Rucknmaul, despite my gleeful tone, and possible hurtful words, I did include in my post the fact that none of the players selected were unworthy of such an honour, nor did they look out of place. I was just stating the fact that there are probably other tight five players in BC who either passed up, were injured or didn't have time for the trials/games. Would you not agree?

    I must note that I have played with and against a handful of the players on team BC, (and the Rock as well) and they are all far superior to me in every facet of every possible piece of gameplay. Except one of the Fijians who plays in the backs can't pass to the left. But I digress...

    Posted 9 months ago #

  25. slackarse
    Member

    BCLock said:
    Honestly, the better team won. Anyone who was there, will tell you the Bears outplayed the Rock. That's all there is to it. However, I am curious (and nervous) to see what happens when all our teams' RWC players leave.

    I don't deny that for a minute, BCLock. The score tells the story, and there's no argument there, from me ... nor could there be.
    My response was not intended as a put-down of BC rugby, but as a reaction to Son of Heavy's tone. Seemed to me to have an unreasonable animosity toward the Rock.
    Still not sure what the Hell he meant by his question " Why are we letting these guys hold us ransom for inclusion at every table again? "

    Posted 9 months ago #

  26. slackarse
    Member

    irishlock said:
    I don't want to burst your bubble but this Rock team is in fact the Atlantic Rock and representative of QC, NS, NB, PEI and NL. You talk of not disrespecting players, but then go on to effectively say its just a NL team, which if you look a the squad listing is not the case.

    No bubble to burst, irishlock ... I'm only too well aware of the fact. I disagree, however, that I was disrespectful of QC, NS, NB or PEI players, (certainly didn't intend to be) and can't see how I "effectively" said the Rock is just an NL team. It is, however, an NL-based team, and its team spirit is grounded in its historical roots.

    Might just as well say that it's not a Newfoundland team (nor has it ever been, for the past decade) because its coach, Parfrey, is not a native, but an Irishman (by way of England). And his player sons, as well.

    The CRC is now in just its second season, and for a decade the Rock was properly and accurately named the Newfoundland Rock. Even pre-CRC, though, the Rock was reinforced by players from beyond Newfoundland, and we were quite well aware of that, and glad to have them, too. They helped immensely in raising the standard of our game. Many have chosen to marry and settle here. May we now consider them "Newfs"?

    Unfortunately, all through the Super League years there were some on this forum who seized on every opportunity to point to the presence of some non-natives on the Rock as a way of somehow deligitimizing the Rock's accomplishments. (I believe I did acknowledge the contributions of the Welsh duo Blanks and Lovell, and the BCers Wish and Warden, not to forget Mike Webb in seasons past. Sinclair, O'Toole, Wodzicki, Fortin and others over the years.)

    Ironically, there are those levelling that accusation who in all likelihood could not give you the proper team names of the Super League teams from NS, NB and Quebec, even though that league is now just 2 years defunct (Keltics, Black Spruce and Caribou ... for those interested).

    Posted 9 months ago #

  27. slackarse
    Member

    newbie said:
    Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the strong and mighty "Rock" fly in two or three players from BC last year to play in the championship of the CRC last year?

    I believe you're probably referring to O'Leary and Goodland ... who are native Newfs.
    This is somehow illegitimate? Not quite the same as parachuting in Kiwis or Aussies, now, is it?

    Posted 9 months ago #

  28. knower
    Member

    slackA How about Morgan Williams for last years game
    and Phil Mack for Tonights game.

    If NL players stayed and played in NL the ROCK would be
    the fourth best rugby playing province in Canada.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  29. winger14
    Moderator

    We'll never know Knower. You might be surprised at how the level of competition rises when players stay home.

    I would hope that one day players can stay in their home provinces / clubs, and not have to make South Vancouver Island an artificial hub of rugby.

    Winger14

    Posted 9 months ago #

  30. knower
    Member

    I KNOW! That's why I'm "Knower".
    Check out this years results at the Age Grade Championships.
    Those players have never left their provinces.
    Unless they were recruited by Shawnigan Lake School.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  31. winger14
    Moderator

    I have been checking out the age grade. At U14 Ontario beat BC today. Good close game, but Ontario won.

    In the National Women's league BC won at U23 and lost at Sr and U20

    Has the rest of it happened yet (legit question not intended to have any sarcasm...seriously)

    If it hasn't (and I believe it's later in August) my prediction is that BC will not sweep. Ontario will take their share, and look to AB to be a dark horse. Ontario has improved by huge leaps and bounds over the past 10 years, and I expect that to continue. They have in fact had periods where they have dominated the age-grade comp.

    You never know until it happens.

    And that's why we play.

    Winger14

    Posted 9 months ago #

  32. knower
    Member

    knower said:
    I KNOW! That's why I'm "Knower".
    Check out this years results at the Age Grade Championships.
    Those players have never left their provinces.
    Unless they were recruited by Shawnigan Lake School.

    Wing Age Grade Championships are being played this weekend
    Lets check out how the Provinces do at U18 Boys?
    BC and Ont will be like NZ and AUS.
    Alb and NFL will be like Can and USA.
    The Rest Well, Forget about it!
    The Provinces,at this level, will be using only
    home grown talent and the results will give an
    indication of provincial rugby development.
    I wonder if Shawnigan Lake School will handing out
    rugby scholarships this year?

    Posted 9 months ago #

  33. irishlock
    Member

    knower said:
    I KNOW! That's why I'm "Knower".
    Check out this years results at the Age Grade Championships.
    Those players have never left their provinces.
    Unless they were recruited by Shawnigan Lake School.

    How about we check the results from U19 last week. Rankings as follows:

    #1 Ontario
    #2 Lower Canada (FRQ and Eastern Ontario)
    #3 Prairies
    #4 Atlantic

    AFAIK, all players live in their home region.

    Seems like BC decided to not leave their province I guess.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  34. knower
    Member

    ILock Quit BC bashing and take a look where the 2011
    World Cup Squad play their rugby. Now bow down!
    All provinces are in this weekend and check
    the spread in games that are 60 mins long.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  35. irishlock
    Member

    You were the one that said :

    "The Provinces,at this level, will be using only
    home grown talent and the results will give an
    indication of provincial rugby development."

    At U19 that is also the case and I think the results speak for themselves. Yes, National Championship Festival is this week, but you can't simply ignore the results in competitions that don't fit in with your mindset.

    I am positive BC will have an excellent showing at National Festival, but maybe you should heed your own words and stop bashing other provinces.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  36. knower
    Member

    No intention of bashing other rugby playing provinces.
    I AM CANADIAN! Just the facts,that if you have a 100 U18
    boys playing in your province and have to play against
    a province that can choose from over 10,000 the result
    is predetermined. However there maybe 1 or 2 potential
    rugby stars from that smaller province who if they move
    to a "PRIDE like" program could become great rugby players
    for CANADA. The U18 National Championships show this year
    after year. This year will be no different.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  37. winger14
    Moderator

    Our slide in the rankings started when the pride started. Are they related? I think so. You take away the top talent from a competition and the level of that comp goes down. What will that do to the supply of elite athletes? It will lower the quality.

    At Age grade either BC and Ontario will likely come in 1st or 2nd, although that isn't a given.

    A solution that streams players solely to BC for development is wrong. Development should take place in each area of the country in my view.

    Once those athletes are in a National Senior team we have no choice, and as wrong as I think that is, we have to centralize them. I would not have them play in the BC premier league however. They would need a higher level of competition to improve.

    And Knower you are bashing other provinces. You may not mean to, but you are. I'll be kind and say you have a BC centric view, others here might use a stronger description.

    Strong programs in Ontario, Quebec the Maritimes and Alberta, mean that BC has to work harder. That is good for Rugby in Canada.

    The best part about the Ontario v BC U14 final was listening to the two packs of forwards tell each other what an amazing game they were a part of. Then hearing them say that one day they would be doing this to other countries as part of a Canadian team. That was pure magic. That's what happens when the talent is developed at home.

    Winger14

    Posted 9 months ago #

  38. knower
    Member

    Day One U18 Results
    BC 41 Que 0
    BC 56 Man 0
    Ont 31 NFL 5
    Ont 20 Sask 5
    Winger You need to get your head out of the sand IMO
    and forget about Magic.
    Centralize the best players in a location where they can
    play at the top level in Canada. That might be Ontario?
    I'm fine with that.

    Posted 9 months ago #

  39. winger14
    Moderator

    Nope, heads not in the sand. But i'll continue to believe in Magic, especially when I see it happen.

    Centralizing is a bad thing...regardless of where it is. I could see regional High Performance centres, if we had the cash.

    We need to get the other regions up to the BC and Ont standard at all grades.

    Winger14

    Posted 9 months ago #

  40. irishlock
    Member

    Knower what about the results you don't bother to report as it doesn't fit your model?

    U16 : Newfoundland 25 ONT1 19

    So by your analogy USA just beat Australia.

    Oh and U18 boys Manitoba 8 Alberta 7

    What does that equate to? Russia beating Canada??

    Congrats to all the boys and girls who have made it to nationals. Looks like there have been some positive strides made outside of Ontario and BC whiich is great. I look forward to more strong rugby today.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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