Canada vs. U.S. my thoughts. « Canadian Rugby Forums

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Canada vs. U.S. my thoughts.

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Posted 9 months ago
rucknmaul
Member

First off congrats to the boys on a big win. I thought the defensive structure was excellent and the tackling was much improved from last week. Some nice individual runs by DTH, kleeberger, White and Mackenzie. Negatives I thought were a struggling Lineout and a couple yellow cards. Individually I thought Scholz struggled with a couple of knockons and almost non- existent offensively. I think they should be giving Trainor a serious look.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
trueviking
Member

never seen any team anywhere lose so many line outs.....hopefully we can fix that before september.

nice to be on a bit of a roll heading into the RWC....with the good showing at the churchill cup and now two straight over the yanks...should be good for confidence

they will have to perform better overall though....we may have won the last two games but i thought there was a lot of sloppy ball handling in both games....defending was solid.

the americans are really really bad.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
winger14
Moderator

Yeah the line out needs work, scrums were generally good and we need to stay on top of that and improve on the base that we have.

Skills were better, but we were on the back foot far too much. We need to do a better job of retaining the ball and not just waiting for the opposition to make a mistake.

Basic skill execution was much better than last week, balls were caught, passing was more accurate, running angles were better.

We need to lower the penalty count. Those were cheapies and against a better team we would have been punished!

Overall a big improvement. Keep it up, and Well Done on the Wins!

And yeah the Eagles were terrible...If they had a goal kicker...

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
rucknmaul
Member

I just hope a couple wins over a very poor US team doesn't lead to overconfidence. Because against a higher quality opponent we would be severely punished with 2 in the bin and that penalty count, not to mention the lost lineouts.

We need not only to improve the lineouts, but we need to be able to build some phases and retain the ball.

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Posted 9 months ago
elbows
Member

Congrats to Canada on a big win and I agree that there was improvement but as was previously stated line outs were an embarrassment. There were far too many first up tackles missed that turned into negative yardage which then left the defence scrambling to recover. The line outs are a team issue, the tackling is on the player.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
rugbyfan07
Member

We won which is great but the game was terrible. The line outs blew..Our centre defense was suspect, With Emeric busting through the centers on several occasions. If the yanks started the scrum half that came off the bench they would have been in the game. It will be interesting to see how many points that Japan puts on the yanks in a week or two.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
rusty_lock
Member

I don't think Scholz is ready for this level. The lineout is in desperate need of repair. Discipline!!!! The penalty count in the first half was atrocious. I thought Cudmores yellow card was weak. Penalty, yes but card, I don't think so. Had Lawrence issued a team warning about breakdown infractions maybe but I didn't hear anything. The front row looks to have stabilized and the scrum at least against tier two opposition is seeing a little dominance. A win is a win and that is important. It was hard to judge the backs with so little ball. Monro Mackenzie looked good, VDM is all class and pritch was solid at the back and kicked well.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
winger14
Moderator

The ref did have a chat with Pat Riordan, so it wasn't much of a surprise. We unfortunately earned both cards. On it's own Cudmore's card was a just a penalty...

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
rucknmaul
Member

I agree that Cudmore's infraction was just a yellow, but I think the ref made that one up we he sin-binned a US player for not rolling away. Also, was it just me or was did the starting scrumhalf for the Eagles have a slow delivery. I've seen second div scrumhalves with nicer deliveries.

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Posted 9 months ago
winger14
Moderator

Ha Ha...I would say the US card wasn't a make up call. The Eagles Hooker had a nap on top of the tackled player, and really slowed down quick delivery. It probably cost us a try. So yeah definitely a warranted Yellow Card.

I'll tell you as a ref, I don't "do" make up calls, and I would bet the vast majority of refs don't. Especially those at an IRB level. What does happen is that there will be periods in games where one team has a series of mental breakdowns that inevitably lead to penalties. They smarten up and then later the other team has the brain cramp.

Agree with you on the halfbacks for the US... 2nd guy had a faster service.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
Bandito
Member

Totally agree that rugby doesn't do "make up" calls - not among good refs, any way. I reckon not just because of the history and ethos of the way refereeing works in rugby, but also because it's such a territory / possession dependent game. In basketball and hockey (?) where "make up calls" exist, territory and possession are forever in a state of flux.

I still think we've been lucky the Yanks were so crap over both matches. Not only did the lads not secure a lot of possession and territory, but they didn't use it effectively most of the time. No one in our pool, and not even the final warm up match opponent(s), will be gifting opportunities like the poor Yanks did.

I'm still not expecting much than the lads to show up and give it their all. Getting a few on the board and keeping it close vs. Tonga and Japan would be realistic supporter views at this stage. (Realistic team goals would be 2-2 at best.)

Posted 9 months ago #
slackarse
Member

I was impressed by the ferocious Canuck defence. On the back foot most of the game, scant possession, but continually frustrating the U.S. initiatives.

Granted, the U.S. made lots of mistakes - but credit where it's due, to a stonewall Cdn. defence. I thought Pritchard really showed skill and experience in how he held up a much bigger guy, denying the Eagles a try. See that TV replay, where Pritchard wrapped up the Eagle's elbow/upper arm, preventing him from grounding? Classy!

Still, we gotta consider the opposition - a team ranked below us.

Overall, I wasn't impressed by the Canadian game, but they DID capitalize on spur-of-the-moment opportunities, and lucked out via a few exceptional individual efforts. The U.S. looked much better organized ... but just couldn't pull it off.

The U.S. fans must have been in utter shock ... seeing their team apparently dominate play, but go down heavily.

Better points-margin than the Toronto BMO game ... but still a FAR cry from the 56-7 pasting Canada handed the Eagles in St. John's at Swilers' Field prior to the last World Cup.

We're slipping.

I'm hopeful, and wish the guys the best, but I'm inclined to agree with Bandito that 2-2 is the BEST we can hope for. I'm fearful that 0-4 is actually a more realistic outcome. Tonga and the other Pacific Islanders seem to be coming on gangbusters ... and Japan has been making strides.

Crowley better hope he can find the rabbit in the hat.

Posted 9 months ago #
knower
Member

Correct Guys! We are slipping and have been since David
Clark (2003 WC)left the building and the PRIDE was closed.
Of course "the Lads will give their all" Why wouldn't
they? The problem is they are not very good and they have
a captain who should not be selected in the starting
fifteen ( bit like SA). Still my expections are that we defeat both Japan and Tonga. No Excuses!
We have never lost to either team at any World Cup.
An 0 and 4 record should not be acceptable for any Canadian supporter.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Is 0 - 4 Acceptable? No.

Realistic? Yes.

I hope we beat Tonga and Japan. I don't expect it.

We are slipping. That has less to do with Rugby Canada and more to do with what's going on around us. Professionalism being the driver.

Where we have control is in our own game, and long term that means keeping players in their home provinces and building the base. That is the best way forward. We can keep doing what we're doing and fall further behind or we can maximize our situation.

1991 was managed before the Pride. Our RWC results in fact took a step backwards after that program came into being.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
knower
Member

The 91 World Cup Team was our most successful.
They were essentially the 87 World Cup Team, four
years older. Check out the 1991 starting fifteen.
Breaking up the Pride Program was the dumbest thing
Rugby Canada has ever done and Canada is now paying
the price with a third rate team.
RC has been trying to start a U20/Carded players team
for a couple of years but have just stumbled/bumbled
and nothing has happened. You have noticed how our U20
results have fallen over the last two years? What a mess!

Posted 9 months ago #
AussieBack
Member

knower said:
You have noticed how our U20
results have fallen over the last two years? What a mess!

This is false as the team that went to Georgia for the JWT finished 1 place higher than the previous year's squad. But let's not have the truth get in the way of a good whinge shall we...

Posted 9 months ago #
rugbyfan07
Member

You can thank the deGoede's (sr) for shutting it down and keeping it down. Williams and tait should be the coaches.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Yep quite right, the 1991 team and the 1987 team were put together before the Pride.

Once the Pride came in, we started to slide.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
brokenlock
Member

Winger I think you are missing the point of the previous posts, in order for the Canadian team to be successful Rugby Canada needs to ignore all rugby east of the Rockies and restablish the pride. Aparently this will solve all our problems.

Posted 9 months ago #
knower
Member

AussieBack said:
This is false as the team that went to Georgia for the JWT finished 1 place higher than the previous year's squad. But let's not have the truth get in the way of a good whinge shall we...

Notice I wrote TWO years. In 2011 we were bad and in
2010 we were worse. The Englishman Coach,@$60,000 plus
year, has no idea how to fix this disfunctional program.
His idea of building a program is ordering TShirts saying
"We are Winners!".
Just wait and watch and you will see. knower
YES the PRIDE needs to be re-established for CANADA to be
successful but you must have the right people in charge.
If Morgan Williams had stayed and played in Cole Harbour
NS he would have NEVER played for CANADA.

Posted 9 months ago #
Popo
Member

I do believe Morgan Williams played at UVIC before the pride... so of there was no pride he would have still found his way into a good program and been noticed.

The pride is not what is needed. What is needed is development of rugby throughout Canada to get more players involved and more players seen without great personal cost to themselves and to rugby in general.

The real shame is that Morgan Williams had to come to BC to get recognized and rugby infrastructure was not adequate in his home region.

Posted 9 months ago #
knower
Member

All potential rugby players are not destined for the
good rugby programs at UBC and UVic. Some, like
firefighter Morgan, just needed great coaching and
a good competition to play in. He never forgot his
rugby roots in NS but you can not play at the national
level if you are playing for the Cape Town Bumblebees.
Older brother, Jeff, played at UVic.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

You're right Knower. A lot of good rugby players stay at home and keep their clubs and regions strong.

Al Charron never left the Ottawa Irish until he turned pro. Did Rod Snow ever play in BC? Chris Tynan stayed at the Lomas etc, etc, etc. The clubs stayed strong and raised the level throughout.

If you are good enough, you get noticed, and maybe even picked.

We don't, and didn't, need the Pride for that.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
Faust
Moderator

Leaving is not the issue, but not coming back is the problem. You can look at even Morgan Williams. Last time I spoke with him, he has not really returned to NS for any serious involvement with NS Rugby.

The list of former NSMT players who left and never returned to Canada let alone their own club is a high number.

Posted 9 months ago #
Popo
Member

Knower both Williams played at UVIC... go ask them.

Posted 9 months ago #
rugbyfan07
Member

All this talk about MW being an east coaster is making me wonder how much time he spent there anyways? They were miliatary brat kids and spent time everywhere. I know they lived on the west coast for two years in the late 80's, a year in Ontario and then on to europe for four or five years. The fact is they live on the west coast now.

The only peolple left on the east coast these days are the ones to lazy to work year round.

Posted 9 months ago #
knower
Member

Yo Winger Why don't you list the players that never
played in the BC Premier League that have
been selected in our 30 man World Cup squad.
It won't take long.
COME WEST YOUNG MEN, COME WEST!!

Posted 9 months ago #
Nova Scotian
Member

@ rugbyfan07 what an ignorant comment saying East Coasters are lazy. You can go fuck yourself.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Yep and that's why we have slipped. The players that take up the places of the players that leave aren't as good, and the level of competition drops.

Not a good thing for Canadian Rugby, and that has certainly been proven over the years.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
knower
Member

Winger stick to reffing "Where you are RIGHT even if
you are WRONG."
Take a look at the U18 results to see what
happens when players stay home.
BC 41 Que 0--- Ont 31 NFL 5
BC 56 Man 0--- Ont 20 Sask 5
BC 31 Alb 0--- Ont 61 NB 0
These games have been shortened from the normal
70 min and still we get HUGE scorelines.
Todays BC vs Ont was a 12-7 victory for the West.
Those games improve rugby, the wipeouts do not!

Posted 9 months ago #