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Canadian Pro Rugby League..

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  1. Ad Bot

    Posted 1 year ago

  2. Harry Craig
    Member

    Growapair I like that last idea. As far as Mark he does a good job, but I disagree with his editorial, which is his opinion, even if it is also the opinion of many others in BC.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  4. Moosehead
    Moderator

    growapair said:
    Hopefully RC has a long-term plan (I know - wishful thinking) to develop the CRC into something more than an exhibition league, otherwise it is a complete waste of effort and money.

    As has been discussed here, it's not a big leap to semi-pro and I for one hope that's where it's headed. At that point it becomes a full-time rugby commitment and anyone with aspirations for the National team will be playing there unless they're good enough for a real professional league.

    In the meantime, if they really want to make the point: if you don't play pro and you don't play in the CRC then you don't play for Canada. Full stop.

    Agreed

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  6. bs_detector
    Member

    [i]Growapair I like that last idea. As far as Mark he does a good job, but I disagree with his editorial, which is his opinion, even if it is also the opinion of many others in BC. Harry Craig

    Can Mark Bryant explain why BC could win the majority of the old national Tier One senior men's championships (held every year in August) and the age group competitions at the National Rugby Festival (held in August) but now have a problem with a national competition held in the summer? Perhaps it has more to do with other provinces/regions having "closed the gap" than the actual timing (i.e If we're not guaranteed to win it, we don't want to play.)

    I also don't think The Rock and Prairie Wolf Pack use the CRC for chest thumping - I think they do their talking on the field and help raise the level of domestic competition in this country - which is what we need to improve at the international level.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  8. Frank
    Member

    There is no long term plan. "Fly by the seat of pants plan" [i] is more like it. The CRC has expanded in number of games. Do they have the money to support this small growth? No!!

    The irb have cut back funding and if RC can just for once remember the exchange the rate when receiving their welfare cheque from the irb.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  10. Smallprint
    Member

    BS

    I think the primary reason BC is having problems getting its top Premiership players to play in a national competition in the summer is as follows - the old nationals format took less time than the SuperLeague season, or the newer CRC season, therefore, players did not have to train as long during the summer and players did not have to take as much time off of work to attend competitions.

    The BC season takes up a lot of players weekends for a huge chunk of the year. Add to it, training at least twice a week, and is it any surprise that most of BC's best choose not to participate in a summer competition as well. Moreover, student athletes need the summer to make money to attend school in the fall, thus limiting their chances of participating in a drawn out summer competition that requires them to miss work.

    While I usually have the utmost respect for Mark Bryant's work, I have to say that his overly zealous protection of the BC way of doing things is harmful to the longterm development of Rugby in Canada. BC's winter season has been a bust for several years because of weather related issues. Cancelled games or compressed seasons do not treat the players kindly or the sponsors or the fans. Just look at the havoc this winter has done to the Aviva Premiership and other U.K. competitions. A unified season should be tried.

    A 4 region competition is a good way to go. But it requires the support of the entire country, no just 3 regions.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  12. bs_detector
    Member

    Smallprint said:
    BS

    I think the primary reason BC is having problems getting its top Premiership players to play in a national competition in the summer is as follows - the old nationals format took less time than the SuperLeague season, or the newer CRC season, therefore, players did not have to train as long during the summer and players did not have to take as much time off of work to attend competitions.

    The BC season takes up a lot of players weekends for a huge chunk of the year. Add to it, training at least twice a week, and is it any surprise that most of BC's best choose not to participate in a summer competition as well. Moreover, student athletes need the summer to make money to attend school in the fall, thus limiting their chances of participating in a drawn out summer competition that requires them to miss work.

    While I usually have the utmost respect for Mark Bryant's work, I have to say that his overly zealous protection of the BC way of doing things is harmful to the longterm development of Rugby in Canada. BC's winter season has been a bust for several years because of weather related issues. Cancelled games or compressed seasons do not treat the players kindly or the sponsors or the fans. Just look at the havoc this winter has done to the Aviva Premiership and other U.K. competitions. A unified season should be tried.

    A 4 region competition is a good way to go. But it requires the support of the entire country, no just 3 regions.

    Small print,

    In 2010 the BC Bears played three games from Aug 14th to September 4, with two road trips (Calgary Aug 14th and Ontario Sept 4). This hardly consitutes a "drawn out summer season" that would jeopardize a student athlete a chance to make money for school (university finishes in April). The other three teams had students playing for them as well.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  14. Smallprint
    Member

    BS,

    You are ignoring reality. Just because it's three or four games spread, doesn't honor the time spent in training, and preseason matches. Teams like the Rock toured Ireland, and played teams like the Newport Gwent Dragons development side in preparation for their seasons.

    BC guys start preseason in August, play all fall, get maybe 4 to 6 weeks off in December/January and that is if we assume they are not training in some manner during that period, and the season ends somewhere around the first week of May.

    And you want these guys to front up and commit to another 6 to 8 weeks in the summer? Be realistic. The rest of Canada have a compressed local season in comparison. It's time members of this forum, and RC start acknowledging the 'practical' realities present in our game. We are constantly criticizing the IRB for being out of touch to the game's needs in Canada and North America in general.

    We are being taught a lesson by Nigel Meville in the USA. He and Rugby USA seem to have finally crafted a solution that fits the game's needs in the USA. If we and RC continue to ignore our own pratical reality we will continue to fall farther behind.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  16. bs_detector
    Member

    Smallprint said:
    BS,

    You are ignoring reality. Just because it's three or four games spread, doesn't honor the time spent in training, and preseason matches. Teams like the Rock toured Ireland, and played teams like the Newport Gwent Dragons development side in preparation for their seasons.

    BC guys start preseason in August, play all fall, get maybe 4 to 6 weeks off in December/January and that is if we assume they are not training in some manner during that period, and the season ends somewhere around the first week of May.

    And you want these guys to front up and commit to another 6 to 8 weeks in the summer? Be realistic. The rest of Canada have a compressed local season in comparison. It's time members of this forum, and RC start acknowledging the 'practical' realities present in our game. We are constantly criticizing the IRB for being out of touch to the game's needs in Canada and North America in general.

    We are being taught a lesson by Nigel Meville in the USA. He and Rugby USA seem to have finally crafted a solution that fits the game's needs in the USA. If we and RC continue to ignore our own pratical reality we will continue to fall farther behind.

    Small print,

    The reality is that many of the top players from the rest of Canada also play in BC in the fall and winter and then play in the CRC in the summer. If they can do it why can't the BC players?

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  18. OHBOY
    Member

    Here is the reality, in 8-9 months Canadian players are going to be on the world stage competing against the best the rest of the world has to offer. Players playing in Europe have about 6 weeks off during the summer (end of May to mid July), they practice 6-7 days throughout the year and play at a level that is probably about 10x’s more taxing then anything on offer in Canada. They seem to manage it, but no not here in BC, we need time off at Christmas, time off during the summer to play 7’s and go to the beach, heck some of the top players in BC even take the fall off to rest because we play so much rugby!! It is a complete joke and a cop-out saying that the season is to long and players are burned out or have to work. Players need to take ownership of what is going on, and if they do not make themselves available to play in a competition that would make them a better player get rid of them and move on to someone that will, till people start figuring out what it takes to compete. As for the whole apples and oranges comparison about pro players versus our amateur players in Canada, while our amateur apples are soon to be playing those pro oranges, and my feeling is it will not be a pretty sight.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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  20. rugbyfan07
    Member

    You two are both out to lunch, the fact is the CRC doesn't stand for anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to fiqure out that you should progress from rep level to rep level up a ladder until your at the top. Playing the Churchill Cup at the beginning of the summer and the CRC and Americas cup at the end is idiotic, players know that the players are picked for national honours are Coaches favorites, and carded players that's it. Name one player who was not carded but has forced his way on to the team over a carded player, it doesn't happen the CRC is supposed to be step up to the national team but it's at the end of the season SMART.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  21. OHBOY
    Member

    Hey Fan,

    What about the crazy concept of playing to make yourself a better player?? It seems like everybody is looking for the smallest excuse not to play instead of getting out there and doing the job. They want all the accolades without doing the hard yards....

    Posted 1 year ago #

  22. rugbyfan07
    Member

    The bc league gives a lot of players what they want from they're rugby.

    Once again structure the leagues around progressing up a rep ladder and more players would buy in.

    The steps should be the CRC, Americas cup and then the national team. The Churchill cup should be in the late summer early fall ending just before the fall tours to europe.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  23. bs_detector
    Member

    rugbyfan07 said:
    The bc league gives a lot of players what they want from they're rugby.

    Once again structure the leagues around progressing up a rep ladder and more players would buy in.

    The steps should be the CRC, Americas cup and then the national team. The Churchill cup should be in the late summer early fall ending just before the fall tours to europe.

    Rugbyfan07,

    The excuse put forward is that BC players can't play CRC in the summer because they've played in the winter and fall even though the best players from the rest of the country can play all of it no problem.

    You say the CRC should be the pathway to the national team with Churchill Cup in the late summer/early fall preceding the fall tours. That leaves the summer for the CRC but that will still derive a "boo hoo we won't play, we're too tired" from the BC crowd.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  24. OHBOY
    Member

    I wonder in other countries where they take their rugby seriously if there is a 'buy-in' factor for getting players on the field???

    BC used to be the shining light for Canadian rugby, but now it is about a sense of entitlement and trying to get accommadations everytime there is an obstacle in our path, instead of just getting out on the field and playing.

    When I was growing up watching and playing rugby I used to think that playing for BC was as much an honour as playing for Canada. Now I am embarrassed that there are actually players out there that are saying no thanks....

    Posted 1 year ago #

  25. Smallprint
    Member

    BS,

    The simply answer is BC's best players don't want to take part in another competition of dubious value. How do we make BC players want to participate in a competition is a question we should be asking ourselves? BC is not the only stakeholder to be let down by the RC's failure to develop a sound national 'pathway' system.

    Insulting the rank and file players in BC or questioning their manhood is not a very inclusive strategy, and is counterproductive to the goals of most of the posters (if not all the posters) on this forum.

    I didn't finish my earlier post due to lunch time commitments, but I would add to it by pointing out other recent success stories. Japan and Italy have progressed in recent years, and we would do well to emulate their progress. Earlier in this post I pointed the Celtic leagues expansion and contraction growing pains should serve as good example for us. The USA is making the changes we need to be making. The question we should be asking ourselves and RC, is why are we falling farther behind?

    Change is going to take unity and commitment.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  26. Harry Craig
    Member

    A lot is being said about the USA, we seem to still beat them regularly in 15s although they are really going in sevens, mostly using casf off NFLers, which is smart. Our rugby is still better than theirs overall despite having one tenth the resource. As far as moving the Churchill Cup, it will be played when the RFU want it to be played, which is the June touring window. No matter when you run the CRC there will be complaints so deal with how it is and even though you aren't going to make this years team there is always next year. We can't force BC to play in the league but I think four teams is the right number for a good league and I hope the players in BC want waht is best for Canadian rugby, not just their province. It sure isn't ideal for Ontario clubs to play it when they do now, but they get on with it, just like the Rock and the Prairies do.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  27. growapair
    Member

    I think a lot of this comes down to a lack of structure with no strictly defined pathway to the NSMT. If we’re going to develop one then it has to work for the whole country because after all this is the “Canadian” national team we’re talking about.

    The reality is that the national season has to be during the spring, summer, and fall months and BC is just going to have to get their heads around that. We need players that are committed to the process. Once there is a clear process, and it is communicated to all involved, then we’ll see which players are willing to do what’s necessary to earn a spot on the team.

    No commitment. No spot. Enjoy your club rugby. Pure and simple.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  28. bs_detector
    Member

    Smallprint said:
    BS,

    The simply answer is BC's best players don't want to take part in another competition of dubious value. How do we make BC players want to participate in a competition is a question we should be asking ourselves? BC is not the only stakeholder to be let down by the RC's failure to develop a sound national 'pathway' system.

    Insulting the rank and file players in BC or questioning their manhood is not a very inclusive strategy, and is counterproductive to the goals of most of the posters (if not all the posters) on this forum.

    I didn't finish my earlier post due to lunch time commitments, but I would add to it by pointing out other recent success stories. Japan and Italy have progressed in recent years, and we would do well to emulate their progress. Earlier in this post I pointed the Celtic leagues expansion and contraction growing pains should serve as good example for us. The USA is making the changes we need to be making. The question we should be asking ourselves and RC, is why are we falling farther behind?

    Change is going to take unity and commitment.

    Small print,

    The point I put forward previously was not "insulting the rank and file players in BC or questioning their manhood". What was being questioned was the lack of commitment being shown to help raise the level of the domestic game in this country. What is[u] insulting is that some BC players think summertime beer, BBQs and waterskiing at the cottage is more important than taking part in our senior mens national rugby championship competition. You tell me who is being counterproductive to our goals and who has a "not very inclusive strategy". I think we all know that's BC. Bring on the unity and commitment...

    Posted 1 year ago #

  29. Popo
    Member

    BC's performance in the CRC has nothing to do with summer time play, BC just does not have the homegrown horses to be the dominant BC that many of us grew up knowing.

    Years of filling up BC's top league with mercenaries from other provinces and countries has dramatically reduced the amount of quality players BC produces and those players that do transplant here do not feel any loyalty or pride to BC.

    BC still produces some top quality players but no where near the amount that it once produced and that is not RC's fault but the fault of those BC clubs who compete through the use of Mercs rather than developing the homegrown players.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  30. Frank Levick
    Member

    I'm with Harry on this one. The USA has as many of the same - if not more issues as Canada. They have made a bit of progress at 7s but not XVs. The Churchill Cup is there to develop English players at the end of their season, not ours. A good number of the current England squad (and other participating nations) have come through the ranks of the Saxons, British Lions even, not to mention being available for call up at short notice to their SH tours. They use us, we use them. If we didn't we'd have even less to work with. The June and November windows, that's what we get.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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