Ethical Behaviour? « Canadian Rugby Forums

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Ethical Behaviour?

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Posted 1 year ago
treetop
Member

but yet we continue to hire these foreign coaches, why, does the accent make us believe they know more???? We got rid of good Canadian coaches who promote the game, for thee foreigners who don't seem to care for our Maple Leaf, nor as it seems for their own rules of conduct. Disgraceful on you Mr long, and Disgraceful on you RC for rewarding this moron with a Commonwealth Games!!!!!!!

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

The women’s national VII’s team has had no coach assigned to them since the last WC. This exhibits irresponsible behavior from our NSO that is presumed to be responsible for staging national teams.

Is it any healthier that the XV’s team has a coach that so gaudily disgraced Canadian rugby? What is the RC board struggling to say to our female athletes?

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
winger14
Moderator

treetop,

Here is where we differ.

The coaches nationality has squat to do with it. As I said earlier, Graham James is not the postcard for every Canadian coach, nor is this character the postcard for every foreign coach.

We live in an international world, and, in my view, we should hire the best coach available. Nationality notwithstanding.

And if you screw up, as this individual has, you should get canned.

Frank,

I wonder how the U23's are coming along. In my view that is of more importance.

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
bisquit
Member

It is becoming clear this 'coach' had no business being put in charge of a National Program. The fact that he was appointed by G Johns without any open process just makes it worse. Maybe this is why Mr. Johns is now the highest paid Sevens Coach in the world? Who made this call, Brown?

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Anonymous

winger14 you are onside! The player I spoke to about the incident also talked about the lack of a U23 or other development program. She said in the last World cup preparation that some players had an opportunity to develop with the U23 program that was aligned with senior team. There was a lot more organisation with Langevine and Sluggo before that. She said that way back then that the senior team was aligned with the 7s team and the U19.

There nationality might not matter but Rugby Canada could make sure that there was more organisation from the coaches.

Not only did they have the worst result ever but it has been reported that we have been disgraced! Time for a change, bring Suggit back!

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
treetop
Member

Winger, so I don't agree, we hire all these foreigners who come in with all these magical ideas (same stuff as before just coming from a guy with an accent) they go hard for a year or two, then fall into the background and do only what is asked and nothing more!!!! case in point with Crowley, he hasn't been at carding practice for the last year and a bit, and today the carded guys are trained by matt barr, not sure he is qualified to teach these guys the skills they need, they have to be working on key skills each pay, that's what they are there for!!!! I wish i was carded, paid to work out and that's about it! Both GL and KC (foreigners) are happy hiding in the woods of Shawnigan!!!!

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
winger14
Moderator

My understanding, and I could be wrong as it's just stuff I've heard, is that the NSMT coaches have to do a lot more than coach, and that the outside interference is taking a lot of their time.

Outside interference would include things like the restructure and Own the Podium funding. And that would be the case notwithstanding the coach's nationality.

If the players maximize their capability and opportunity then the coach has done / is doing a good job. The win / loss record is part of the measure of that.

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

GJ needs to have an official assessment on his act as the HPD. He has been a disappointment in the hiring and releasing coaches in Canadian rugby. First Suggitt, then Wesch, then Langevin, then Thompson, then Williams, then Tait, then Tate, then Goodale, then Murdy then whoever else I have missed. Get the picture?

None of these coaches ever had a analysis on their performance as a national team coach. Some not even as much as phone call. The genuine criminals though are the board members who do not attend meetings. They continue to live by the motto “if I don’t see it, it never happened”

When they look in the mirror, they should be mortified of the way they represent the rugby constituents.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Scorpheus
Member

Here is the original post by TK1 It is interestingly still on the mens forum (i copied & pasted)

POSTED 6 DAYS AGO

tk1
Member
PM this user
Ethical Behaviour?
A head coach makes a rule for his team whilst at a tournament. On the last night of the tournament, the squad are not to get drunk or to be seen drinking, a total alcohol ban is lifted however ‘to go’ mugs are indicated to be used as perception of non alcohol is important to the Head Coach. The local legal age to drink is 18 years of age, all are legal. This ‘team’ rule is stated by the Head Coach to apply also to all staff members including the Head Coach.
Other teams freely drink and enjoy the festivities of the end of tournament function. This team, including staff enjoy themselves within the restrictions.
With one exception, the Head Coach gets absolutely smashed on drink, drunk as a skunk!
So much so he exposes himself & urinates into a cup on the team bus, when there is a toilet available. He then violates team protocol and ignores help & advice from staff, by pretending to go to bed and then sneaking out and following players out on there social night. He corners some players and starts to discuss selections & why they were not selected, whilst in a very very drunk state. This ‘stalking’ continues as players try to avoid him until 4am in the morning.
The next morning at 7am, when the squad leave, get on there bus, to depart for the airport, this coach is still asleep and can not be risen due to his drunken state, he eventually is helped out of his bed and whilst still intoxicated and smelling of the night before, is aided onto the bus, where he cocoons himself onto the rear seat and sleeps, whilst squad equipment is loaded by all others onto the bus (an arduous task) and farewells given to other team coaches & players as well as tournament representatives.
Tranquil sleep, this coach gets on the ride to the Airport. At the airport, patiently waiting are family members of the players, tournament representatives and press. The first person off the bus is the Head Coach who promptly projectile vomits as he steps off the bus and then blows his nose in his hand and wipes the smear of mess onto his tracksuit jacket across the chest, across the insignia so bright before. (There has been a toilet on the bus, which was not used)
The Head Coach then sits on the pavement with his head in his hands and falls asleep, whilst the players & staff unload and organise, he stays in this state for the entire trip home.
Would it matter if this was a men’s team Head Coach?
Would it matter if this was a U20 team Head Coach?
Would it matter if this was a Women’s team Head Coach?
How about an International Canadian Team Head Coach with any of these teams?
Should this coach remain?
Should he be trusted again in a position of ethical responsibility?
If he was in a paid position with an International Team representing Canada, what should happen?
Should he be fired or should he be rewarded and then promoted, with his contract renewed and extended?
What do you think?

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
treetop
Member

Winger, time to wake up, If you don't think KC and GJ had a part in the restructuring then you are like the board, you turn a blind eye. The ARC that was not attended by the coaches, Wolf pack vs (not sure who) was because they were on vacation, KC 2nd vacation of the year as well. Not attending carded sessions???? you can't blame outsjde interference on that, It's called be lazy, and not really giving a hoot!!!! You say coaches should be judged on their teams performance, well why then was williams canned???? from what I've heard from more than a few carded players, it was Tait and Williams that coached these players each day, and got them to the level they're at. KC and GJ idea of coaching is to send guys away to play in a garbage league in wales, against kids and pay over 130, 000K for it. Why not just scrap the KC and GJ if that's what we intend on doing!!!!!!!!! we'll save in the long run on their over the top salaries

Posted 1 year ago #
Scorpheus
Member

I’ve read & heard comments & questions asked about the women’s age grade program.

Again I know this is like the kiss of death to my posts, but I am a father of a national player. So my informed opinion comes from talking with & hearing other National players from all national age grades talking and discussing. If RC believe these players do not feel disenfranchised, do not see double standards and do not talk about the problems then they are “living in a cuckoo’s nest”

The age grade teams U18 & U20 have been under mentorship and guidance and for once I’ve heard really good things.

The U18 coach told me that there trip to san Diego this year was very successful, the 16 & 17 years olds from across the country performed against senior colleges & schools from the USA (Stanford & Pen state included) and remained undefeated and won there category in the championship. Some of the players showing great prospects for the future.

The U20 sqaud has seen over 50 graduates leave in the last 18months, they have gone from a team of individuals to a strong squad with players identified and trained, Wins against Wales USA & several Caribbean Senior squads show the strength (all reported in the public domain)

I have been told from the coaches of U20 & U18 that recommendations have been made by the mentor that the U18 needs to be supported and to continue, whilst the momentum is high, excitement with players on the periphery and the talent so large with the existing players many having another year at least in that age group, a real push could be producing the players for Olympics 2016!! That the U20 group again need support in competition, east west camps and national camps. That the U23 age grade needs to be re instated ( it was scrapped post Women’s Rugby World Cup 2006) as there are over 50 players entering from U20 national rugby plus a huge number playing provincial rugby (so evident at this years NWL) this could be a real spring board for the NSWT.

These recommendations going to the HP department (you know TA DH GJ & JL)

Guess what has happened??
The U18 coach was told that the u18 program will be terminated!
The U20 schedule REDUCED!
The U23 NO ACTION TO BE TAKEN!

The November development tour (a tour to combine best U23 with NSWT) which I have been saving for so my daughter can attend, hasn’t even been planned they have left it, done nothing not even contacted players, it is a gong show!!! I am sure the excuse will be “we are to busy covering our tracks, ooops”

Yes I am angry, Yes I am a Father but come on this is ridiculous

I wonder do the iRB know?

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

You should be angry and it yes it is ridiculous. The vertically integrated program left when Suggitt moved to the USA. There is no doubt that that successful formula will resurface south of the border.

Posted 1 year ago #
Toothlesstiger
Moderator

Just to follow-up Winger's position on the nationality of head coaches. Yes the competition should be open and transparent.

We got KC while our brothers over the Border got Ed Sullivan from Ireland, having been just relieved of the Head Coaching duties of the Irish national program following the past RWC.

The experience and inside network that Sullivan has around the World as well as within the iRB brought to the USA, regardless of how he ended up in America, is priceless.

On the other side of the ledger, what contact has KC brought to R.C., experience, a winning record, RWC experience... nowt!!!

Then we get a loaner from Wales / iRB, following on from the Irish loaner from the RFU, Ronnie McDonald, and now he was replaced in the form of GJ. Like in the case of hiring an office temps, they go looking to establishing themselves as indispensable and low and behold he found himself falling into a full time position, the title changing as often as the toilet seat goes up and down.

We may, very well have good and budding coaches, I will take your word on that, home grown but with two things that do not come into play.

One the desire for such young coaches to make the personal sacrifice to search the rugby world, as our players have in the past, looking to be picked up and secure the coaching opportunities to develop their skills to a higher level.

The other sad and unforgivable omission is that R.C. and the iRB do not have in place, through there insignificant presence at the iRB, a pathway where such the same budding young Canadian coaches can be seconded to, with fiscal support in order to develop the level of coaching in the likes of the Magners, Premier or the N14 France and that is only the Northern markets. Ask our Argies how many of their young coaches are apprenticing in Europe.

Winger may not agree with this but this also is a deficiency that the Rugby Canada Referee Program has in common with that of our coaches.

However,some of our young refs have a leg up on the coaches in the form of a series short term exchanges through long standing agreements established by some of the provincial and their sub referee societies have for short term referee exchanges.

I have to say I am loving my new found position of dropping in and have alook at the level of frustration that is being expressed here. It is through such dialogue that the AoC came about. I am not endorsing the outcomes of that flawed attempt to pump life into an organisation at that time Canadian Rugby Union. They were such a group of dedicated rugby people like yourselves all across this land developed a plan, right or wrong, did something about what they felt was needed at the time.

The downside of that movement is that they left you all their legacy where you are encumbered with a Governing Board [Committee] that cannot be readily dismantled without going to Court.

Keep up the good work.

Posted 1 year ago #
winger14
Moderator

Referees get frequent opportunities to go overseas, and yes that is done at the provincial level. And it has to be. This won't sound good, but anything that Rugby Canada would offer in terms of a level of game at a national referee level to national referee level is so far below what our refs would see when they visit another country that it isn't even worth mentioning.

Sure give up that Heineken Cup or Super 14 game for the CRC / ARC final. Doesn't even come close.

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
winger14
Moderator

And now back to Treetop.

Just passing on what I heard. As mentioned it's hearsay, so take it for what it's worth.

I would hope that those left running the programs had a say in the restructure, if not there are even bigger problems.

Scorpheus' post is the scary one. It annoys me to no end as a coach as the players that I spend time with will end up being victimized by this slipshod performance.

Grrrrr.....

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Do not misplace the picture of this topic.

1) Ethical Behavior
2) Unprofessional conduct

The women in the national program deserve better.

Posted 1 year ago #
washedupprop
Member

Short of firing this guy, what do people think the ethical responsibility of this coach is, assuming he is going forward with his program?
Do people people think this guy (I'm assuming) can go forward at all? International coaching can take a massive toll on a persons mental state, that I am not sure people who have never been there appreciate. It has seriously damaged the will to coach/teach of a couple of guys I know that have done it at the RC level, especially with the number of roman senators we have in this country.
If it is a tale from the women's program, that must have been devastating... the stalking part... not sure how the players will have felt about that...
What do people think?

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

He should turn himself in Winger, just like your hockey coach. There was no place for him in hockey and there should be no place for him in rugby. Makes DM look like a greek god.

Posted 1 year ago #
hockeydad
Member

Well I just have to comment on this crazy behavior of the women's national team coach. When two posts have been removed on this issue, which tells me that the board doesn’t have a foot to stand on to back this coach's behavior. Harry said on his post that I doubt anyone would defend this behavior, well I guess he was wrong. I see the great minds of rugby Canada have done some restructuring and I see the same coach as the head coach of the national women's program. So I guess their washing (rugby Canada) this under the bus with his urine and vomit. I see great professionalism, leadership all over this restructuring... what a joke........Last but not least as a parent I would be as mad as hell if a coach whipped his little pee pee out and took a piss in a cup at the back of a bus….Throw him to an off leash dog park and let him urinate on a tree. !!! Great leadership on his part and RUGBY CANADA!!!!

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Well written Hockeydad.RC is taking the approach "If we ignore it will go away."

Clean up your act or get out.

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

Hockey Dad I'm with you but no one said who it was. Are you telling me you know who it was, or are you just believing what others alleged

Posted 1 year ago #
Snowman723
Member

SO i'm confused..

Did the story in the original post (before it was deleted) actually happen? GJ? Really??

If this is factual info it is truly pathetic

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

Two problems with this story, besides the obvious one that it should have never happened. They are that the writer failed to identify him or herself and also that they did not identify the alleged offender. This led to speculation on who it might be. Let's not assume anything because we all know what happens when you do that.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Is RC really sweeping this under the carpet? I can not believe this behavior is acceptable. TA and GB, why are you hiding in Victoria/Richmond Hill. Address this issue?

Posted 1 year ago #
Fan
Member

test

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Is it a test of character? Are the players afraid to say something because of potential non selection?

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

RC is still attempting to ignore the situation. It will not go away!!

Posted 1 year ago #