Preparation for World Cup 2010 « Canadian Rugby Forums

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Preparation for World Cup 2010

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Posted 4 months ago
REAL
Member

No tour to NZ. A internal training camp? 2 games (can-am) vs USA. not good at all. pull your heads out of your ass rugby canada. these girls deserve the best preparation. they have worked hard for years and communication and commitment has just gone astray from the big wigs???????? at rugby canada. send them to england, ireland, wales or scotland. it's a quick little flight over and it's some other opposition rather than the USA and their terrible style of play. opposition with a true understanding of the game is what they need. canada stoop to the level of the USA when they play them and need to be tested properly to work on trust and combination's. bad planning for no fallback tour or other options on rugby canada's behalf.

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

Couldn't agree more. If RC can find the money to send Doug and his camera to HK then they should be able to find the money to send the girls to NZ. Really you need to ask yourself what has more value?

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
teamaccess
Member

Allegedly this tour was deemed "too expensive" without the support of the NZRU. Considering each girl was initially asked by RC to pay $3000 for 10 days in France, a trip to NZ must have been fukc-off expensive. Curious to know how much though.

On a related note, I'm sure the girls would love a financial breakdown of where all the money they pay for each tour actually goes... I've heard RC has been avoiding that item for quite some time.

It's too bad, because the NSWT are so passionate about playing for Canada, they're too scared to kick up a fuss and demand to know where there money goes.

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

The money problem is not only with the women. It is the age grade programs paying hand over fist. it is even having Williams begging (fund raising) for money to run the mens sevens team. Williams has raised more money for the program in six months then Taylor has done in 4 years. What is RC doing with all their money? Word is that they operate on a 10 million dollar budget. I guess we will find out at the AGM of fools.

Posted 4 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Ouch, not a good prep at all...

Winger14

Posted 4 months ago #
REAL
Member

no chance in hell that anyone will stand up and say something like "where are our expense breakdowns on each trip, or why wasn't there a back up tour in motion, if we are to believe that nzru don't have the funds (as was hinted months ago)". the reason no player will stand up and say this is because of the ridiculous and erratic behavior of coaching staff and management. even players like patzer, gibbs, russell and crips aren't certain of a start (and they sure as hell should be every time) in a game because of the inconsistency of any decision these morons (and i say this reluctantly, because i wanna say great coaches and staff, but have been so far, unable to do so) continually make. i love the game, the passion these girls show to their country, their dietary regiment, their training and their financial commitment. each and every one of them should be commended because if this was a ship sinking they would all bust their ass to keep it afloat while time and time again the coaches and staff would jump ship. weak weak weak. rugby canada should be embarrassed. these girls could do way better if they disassociated themselves from the boys club (rugby canada). they would have more funds available through sponsorship, apparel (on and off the field) through a very reputable company and not have to pay a cent for it and most probably full sponsorship from and airline. who needs these rugby canada misfits ruining the game for this great bunch of ladies, who let down after let down (all from the rc boys club) keep getting back up and give their everything.

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
rusty_lock
Member

Here's brief article on the cancelation from the Waikato times.

Oddly no official statement from the NZRU

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/rugby/3411343/Black-Ferns-left-game-less

Posted 4 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

And this from Rugby Canada

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientid=3817&leagueid=0&page=43063

This should not have been allowed to happen. The women give so much for the opportunity to wear the Maple Leaf, and they will soldier on as they always do.

Unfortunately there is no real way to hold anyone accountable for it.

Winger14

Posted 4 months ago #
teamaccess
Member

From an email lighting up the West Coast today...

At a BCRU meeting yesterday to prepare for the Rugby Canada AGM in a few days time, a number of issues were discussed including the imposition of fines for failure to submit properly completed game sheets. However the issue that understandably caused the most discussion is a motion by Rugby Canada to impose an additional levy of $ 10 per registered member (including junior and mini members) to help cover the cost of sending the National Womens Team to the Womens Rugby World Cup in August/September 2010. The women themselves are already contributing significant sums out of their own pockets and Rugby Canada is close to bankrupt and has no surplus funds available for this purpose. No other plan to raise this money has been seen as feasible by Rugby Canada. There are about 5,500 registered members in BC and about 22,000 nationally, so the one-time (until next World Cup??) levy would ask for $ 55,000 from BC and would ask for $ 220,000 nationally.

Members of the BCRU Board were very upset about this proposal and Rugby Canadas financial management generally. At the same time they see us caught between a rock and a hard place, the women desperately needing this support. BCRU has committed itself to do what it can at the RC meeting to find a more acceptable alternative to the levy, while at the same time trying to make sure that the women from BC receive the support they require. BCRU will also make it clear at the meeting that the financial management at Rugby Canada must be radically improved.

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

I heard that Rugby Canada is only asking for $2.50 from Manitoba and PEI. Here is a novel idea, Rugby Canada should do the following: Take all these positions and combine them for one person.

Trevor Arnold - Director of Rugby Development and Referee Development Manager

Kieran Crowley - National Team Coach

Geraint John - High Performance Director

Dustin Hopkins - Coach Development Coordinator

Crowley can fulfill all these jobs and RC can put the salaries into the Women's World Cup preparation. Don't tell me he can't do it, the men have not played since last fall and half of the carded players are in Wales.

Here's a better idea - close the office in Toronto and now you have cut half your operating expenses.

Really it is that simple!

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
teamaccess
Member

Or how about this idea? RC can another staff member just to deal with fundraising; this new position would report to Nick Taylor as the director of marketing.

If they have done this - as it is rumoured they have - they have truly lost their minds. RC would be better off placing a new staff's salary towards the women and have Nick actually do his job - or find a single person who will.

Posted 4 months ago #
tlml1234
Member

the NZRU has responded to the recent tour cancellation
http://www.scrumqueens.com/news/282-new-zealand-compensate-for-canada-tour-cancellation.html

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
Frank
Member

Some days ago, Canada released a statement saying that the decision to cancel their trip was mutual. However privately a memo was sent to the Canadian players stating that the cancellation was due to a decision in New Zealand to forgo the fixtures due to budget constraints and the desire to focus on internal competitions. New Zealand say they had budgeted for the tour.

Have the Canadian Women been told the truth on the cancellation of the tour? It all smells very fishy to me.

Posted 4 months ago #
tlml1234
Member

Re WC costs,does the IRB not contribute money for travel,etc.If I'm not mistaken for the WC7s the travel and accomadation,meals etc. were covered by the IRB,the Women didn't have to contribute,except for their own personnel expenses.

Posted 4 months ago #
tlml1234
Member

Just wondering after reading the attached article how much money was given to Canada to put on the 2006 WWC,depending if and how much maybe the debt would not have been so great.
http://www.ScrumQueens.com Women's World Cup hoping to break even: http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fyht9k6h&h=5b5bf9597e0ddc192355431cf9cd6fdf

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

This is Rugby Canada's way to find some extra funds to send staff members on another vacation. All jokes aside. Someone at the AGM needs to ask the easy question "did you know that the women were going to London and how long did you know for" "If you've known for 4 years that there was going to be another World Cup then why didn't you plan for it?"

Here is another cost saving measure: Cut two of these three salaries:

Chief Executive Officer
Graham Brown

Chief Financial Officer
Mike Duffy

Finance Co-ordinator
Linh Nguyen

Cut two of these five positions

Director - Commercial Operations
Nick Taylor

Manager of Communications
Doug Crosse

Special Events Co-ordinator/Manager of Events
Jennifer Nieuwendyk

Administration, Insurance, Registration
Bob Kreasul

Merchandising Coordinator
Deanna Ahee

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
rugby.development
Member

First time writer but long time reader.

Frank I have been around rugby a long time and had to deal with a lot of negativity and negative people but you sir take the cake.

Why exactly should all of those jobs be cut? Have you ever worked professionally in amateur sports or professional sports management or any management of any kind? What makes you an expert?

Why cut a CFO when everybody wants more financial accountability from the office? Why cut a marketing and sponsorship guy when you want more fund raising and sponsorship? Fastest way to lose sponsors is to cut staff as then the sponsorship management and fulfillment falls apart.

The office is often hamstrung by the RC Board in what they do and how they do it as in all sports the boards interfere and stick their nose where it does not belong.

More sponsors with deeper pockets will partner with Rugby Canada when membership increases significantly. Most amateur sports struggle for sponsorship in Canada what makes you think rugby should be so different? It is a small niche sport played in small pockets of Canada but rugby volunteers seem to think it is huge and corporations should jump all over it not going to happen until participation grows.

Get off the back of the staff and if you are not prepared to do something productive shut up and stop posting anonymously.

I hate to defend the staff as I have had my run ins and negative experiences over the years but they like everybody else is working hard and doing the best they can.

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

Rugby development guy, first of all I do not see my comments as negative but as possible solutions to generate funds from within the amateur organization to operate the national programs. As you indicate there are no big name companies with huge amounts of cash willing to support the NSWT so why have a guy working to raise those funds? They are doing such an awful job at it that the men's 7's national coach is writing letters and asking for donations. Someone is not doing a good enough job and the coach is doing two jobs. This is how I came up with my theory of cutting staff.

No I have never worked in an amateur organization or in a senior management position and I do not consider myself an expert. But you on the other hand title yourself "Rugby Development" so ask yourself this, there is a world cup every four years, it can't be possible that this hard working well informed staff didn't know about it and by all accounts should have planned for it.

It is an excuse to say the office is hamstrung by the board. The board has been constantly changing and they are a non factor in the production of the paid administration.

In most cases the captain goes down with the ship and in this case the passengers should throw him over board.

Posted 4 months ago #
rugby.development
Member

I had written a long post back to you Frank but the system or my system seems to have frozen and caused it to disappear.

So I will send you the highlights

1) Negative people seldom see themselves as negative but constructive you must fall into this as well

2) Cutting staff is short sighted and has both long term implications for fund raising and organizational effectiveness and should be seen as a last resort. Cutting staff to save a few bucks for the WRWC 2010 will backfire

3)If the sponsorship fund raising guy is that bad explain the long term renewal of Trafigura? Agreements like this do not happen overnight and there is usually significant relationship building needed to get it done. They are also easy to lose if the agreement is not fulfilled properly hence why you don't cut staff

4) The BOD is a huge part of the problem both in terms of long term planning or lack thereof and interference they often do destroy and have destroyed the effectiveness of the staff one call with a board member can take hrs. They change names at the board table but not the culture. They also have not placed a priority on the women or the 7's this should be laid at their feet.

5) I would call on the Director of Business Development to focus on womens fund raising for the 2010 year leading up to the WRWC and develop some events and programs that fans can contribute to if they wish as opposed to asking all members for $10

6) RC did prior to 06 because it was in Canada and said they would not do it again so don't. Allow the provinces to ask their members to support their homegrown players if they wish but don't ask the members for it across the board.

Just one person thoughts

7)

Posted 4 months ago #
Faust
Moderator

Here Here.
Funny complain about 10$ when they have wasted that much on spilled beer in one night or hamburger &fries, but we expected our girls to spend $3000 of their own money to play for our country. $3000 is much more spilled beer.

Cutting staff, no- but putting in the right people and the give them incentives to do things better than an average job.

My big issue with the development of Rugby in Canada is that we are going backwards. We market the sport like it is in Wales or New Zealand. The issue is we need to market it and gain support of people outside the usual crowd.

As for Women's rugby, they pay their dues and come out help clubs. I know many clubs who not exist today if they did not have the women members to support them. They added growth to the game while men's memberships have been in a decline. Men get a free ride to RWC 2011 (in comparison). I will gladly go without the two beers on Friday & give them the $10.

Frank, you are a negative person.

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
hornybee
Member

Not to speak for Frank, but I assumed he meant that nobody is currently doing these jobs, regardless of title, so why are we paying them. Better yet why are we paying them SO much?

Posted 4 months ago #
Harry Craig
Member

Everbody buy lottery tickets.

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

Cause my ideas are different from yours does not make me a negative person. Don't let the thought of change be confused with being negative. I find you overly defensive and motherly protective of the Rugby Canada staff. Why?

You can point your finger at the board and I point my finger at the people that are paid over three quarter of million dollars to run the amateur organization. Think about that dollar amount and tell me the expectations should not be greater from the staff.

Posted 4 months ago #
Moosehead
Member

Well assuming the board have approved of the salaries of the staff then the Board should have faith in them and let them do their jobs. The Board should be involved with short-term and long-term strategic planning and let the staff get on with doing their job for the day-to-day stuff and implementing the plans.

I support a $10.00 fee to help out the Canadian National Women's Rugby team and if this fee helps them get top training and competition ahead of the world cup then I think they deserve this financial support. I can think of a lot spin-off benefits from a very good World Cup result by our Canadian women and this can even benefit mini and youth rugby throughout Canada. All of this for $10.00. If corporate Canada and governments can't provide the extra money required then I don't see what is wrong with the Rugby membership coming up with the money for the women. $10.00 won't break that bank and the power of collective support cannot be underestimated.

This support does not stop me from questioning the need for 2 head offices for Rugby Canada and as a fan the lack of games scheduled or proposed for the Men's National Team.

Posted 4 months ago #
Faust
Moderator

Frank said:
Cause my ideas are different from yours does not make me a negative person. Don't let the thought of change be confused with being negative. I find you overly defensive and motherly protective of the Rugby Canada staff. Why?

You can point your finger at the board and I point my finger at the people that are paid over three quarter of million dollars to run the amateur organization. Think about that dollar amount and tell me the expectations should not be greater from the staff.

You are negative person, because every thing you is a criticism.
You are not overly protective, you are overly critical. Based on wages and salaries that they are paying, it is not unrealistically for what they do. They paid David Clark more (if my memory is correct) and he did less.
If your criticism is that they are not doing the job to level as per your expectations and give ideas how they could get more sponsorship or something, then that in my eyes is a positive response.

Moose, I am all about pay for performance. CFL was able revive the sport in Quebec, why can't Rugby do the same? We can't continue to the same path we are presently on to be successful. IMHO two HQ are ok, but I want to see more programs like Pacific Pride and more marketing being done. Show me the value!!!

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

I don't want to appear negative but why is there no Financial Report on the Rugby Canada web page? Did they just now realize that they were short $220,000.00. What if the tour to New Zealand wasn't cancelled, would they still be asking for a kind donation of $10.00 from every mini rugby player? There appears to no plan and they counting on the kindness of the rugby community to bail them out.

Here is another solution: Cut the SMNT by $250,000.00 and use the money for the SWNT to prepare for 2010. Work on a plan and add the tax for the Men's World Cup 2010?

Posted 4 months ago #
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Posted 4 months ago
Faust
Moderator

Frank said:
I don't want to appear negative but why is there no Financial Report on the Rugby Canada web page? Did they just now realize that they were short $220,000.00. What if the tour to New Zealand wasn't cancelled, would they still be asking for a kind donation of $10.00 from every mini rugby player? There appears to no plan and they counting on the kindness of the rugby community to bail them out.

Here is another solution: Cut the SMNT by $250,000.00 and use the money for the SWNT to prepare for 2010. Work on a plan and add the tax for the Men's World Cup 2010?

The AGM is this weekend, so we should hear more from them. But it is a good question.
But you are thinking of cutting and I thinking that they should work their asses off to increase sponsorship and raise the image of the game in Canada. Maybe a combination of both cutting and raising.

No matter what I do not want the SWNT pulling $3000 out of their pocket to play for Canada. It is completely unfair.

Posted 4 months ago #
rugby.development
Member

Let me clarify something quickly.

I am a big supporter of womens rugby having coached it and enjoyed watching it. I also do not want to see the women shell out the money they are being asked to shell out either.

I think $10 is a small price to pay to help them and would am happy to do it. However the principle of asking the membership for it is wrong right off the bat. Especially as they said it was a one time thing last go round in 06.

I will donate $50 if Rugby Canada sets up a Women's World Cup fund that is easily accessible and can be done online if there is a tax receipt available even better but if not so be it? Does something like this exist right now on the RC web site apologies if I have missed it?

Can the esteemed members of this forum help me with this?

Posted 4 months ago #
Frank
Member

Faust the staff at Rugby Canada have had four years to work their asses off to raise money for the SWNT. After four years of planning and working their asses off the best solution they can up with at the twelfth hour is "impose an additional $10.00 to all registrations" Why not ask for $50.00 now cause you know they will be coming back next year for the mens team.

Posted 4 months ago #
pwharcourt
Member

I get a bit tired of reading about how Edmonton screwed up the last womens world cup to the tune of 800k when the entire event was run by Rugby Canada. They even had paid staff in a temporary office and you can believe that every RC admin or staff member were there. There is no way that event could have cost 800k even if air travel was included. The food was magnificent and it is too bad that some of the entries had no money as we had to keep a couple of entrants from continuously raiding the buffet for their evening meal.
I recognize the contribution made by Ladies in our game and hope they continue and on some cases last a little longer playing than they do now. I also would contribute to a ladies world cup fund as long as it was run entirely separate from RC and Nick and Karl's junior fund used to run.
i would also like to make a comment re the stadium question. How do you place a stadium in a country which is 4k miles wide and 300 miles deep. Who has done the best job and bids should be the key. Building edifices is not the solution.
Peter

Posted 4 months ago #