Canadian Rugby Forums » Men's National Teams

Same team announced for the All Blacks

(42 posts)
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    Posted 7 months ago

  2. PALADIN
    Member

    Burtwell was a Canadian coach. So is Parfrey! We are a land of immigrants. I get that! What I don't get is why we need to bring in a coach from another country to get NO improvement in international results.
    Why not learn from other countries? Italy, Japan, USA, Scotland, Wales and YES Australia. Where was that Tongan
    coach from? Or the Irish coach that got a Win over Oz?
    Believe in Canadians and do things in a Canadian way.
    If you get the right Coach we will get improved results.
    Geriant John as High Performance Director. That's amusing.
    Does anyone think Crowley or John is staying in Canada once
    their paycheck stops?
    Let's have some PRIDE in our country. Come on Posters and
    weigh in on this topic.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  4. Titan
    Member

    PALADIN said:
    Burtwell was a Canadian coach. So is Parfrey! We are a land of immigrants. I get that! What I don't get is why we need to bring in a coach from another country to get NO improvement in international results.
    Why not learn from other countries? Italy, Japan, USA, Scotland, Wales and YES Australia. Where was that Tongan
    coach from? Or the Irish coach that got a Win over Oz?
    Believe in Canadians and do things in a Canadian way.
    If you get the right Coach we will get improved results.
    Geriant John as High Performance Director. That's amusing.
    Does anyone think Crowley or John is staying in Canada once
    their paycheck stops?
    Let's have some PRIDE in our country. Come on Posters and
    weigh in on this topic.

    Paladin - while I like your enthusiasm for taking pride in our country I hardly think the nationality of our coach is our biggest issue. To assume Crowley and John are only in this for the money is nothing but a cheap shot with no basis. Have you spoken with either of them or do you base your opinions off what Mark Bryant says on BCRugbynews? Sure it would be nice to have a Canadian in charge but I have no issue with having a Kiwi as our main man. It seems they know a little bit about rugby.

    Everyone keeps pointing to the Japan tie as proof we are 'spinning our wheels.' Fair enough but you would have to say that Japan did not improve either from 2007. With the amount of money flowing in the Japanese Rugby Union and the fact they are hosting in 8 years it would be hard to believe this Japanese team was only as good as 2007.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  6. treetop
    Member

    Well lets look at their track records!!!
    Crowley- been in charge for 4 yrs now and we are no better than last WC? The Wales project was a bust and a huge waste of money! The carded players left n Victoria went un coached by Crowley for the whole year!
    G.John-Been in charge of the 7's for a year, he won one bowl final in HK compared to the previous year coached by Williams who led the team to a Top 8 in Punta, Top 8 in N.Z, Bowl Champions H.K, Bowl Champions in London! and I think over 45 players were used by Williams. John Led the team to the worse Commonwealth Games finish in CDN history. He recently held two 7's camp and wasn't even there!!! This says a little something about commitment. and oh yeah the PanAm games are this month!!!!

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  8. irishlock
    Member

    PALADIN said:
    What I don't get is why we need to bring in a coach from another country to get NO improvement in international results.
    Why not learn from other countries? Italy, Japan, USA, Scotland, Wales and YES Australia. Where was that Tongan
    coach from? Or the Irish coach that got a Win over Oz?

    Are you implying that Australia who just won their first Tri Nations since 2001 are worse off with Deans? Gatland took Wales to a Grand Slam in his first season. Mallett got Italy there first win against France in recent times.

    Is your point that these teams arent successful and they made a mistake by hiring their incumbent coach?? If so I think you are sadly mistaken. In all cases the person selected was deemed by the Union to be the best person who applied at the time. Which is the in the case of Kieron Crowley.

    From my perspective living in Quebec, rugby had a real buzz about it just by being on TV and having Canada perform well. People who had never seen rugby before were talking about it.

    Did the NSMT finish on a high note? No? Do I necessarily agree with all the selections made? No, but nor do I heap vitriol on the players selected to represent the country, who did so with Pride, commitment and tenacity.

    Sure, 2-2 would have been nice, but where are all those people who were pridicting 0-4?? I would suggest that some of them are the ones who continue to suggest we should replace the exisitng coaches with Canadian coaches. Far from eating humble pie about their doom and gloom predictions they are acting as if Canada should have put france to the sword and qualified for a quarter final.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  10. Faust
    Moderator

    Crowley is not the problem, but the lack of games at a high level and good grassroots technical training are.

    I feel sorry for the guys, because they had such high hopes after the Tongan game, then they realized that they were lacking the experience at high level.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  12. knower
    Member

    Titan What do you mean when you wrote "It seems they
    know a little bit about rugby" Are you saying that
    Canadian coaches do not know "a little bit about rugby"?
    There are many Canadian coaches that could get wins over
    Tonga and Japan.

    These Off Shore Coaches should use their return tickets.
    They have not improved our rugby.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  14. Titan
    Member

    knower said:
    Titan What do you mean when you wrote "It seems they
    know a little bit about rugby" Are you saying that
    Canadian coaches do not know "a little bit about rugby"?
    There are many Canadian coaches that could get wins over
    Tonga and Japan.

    These Off Shore Coaches should use their return tickets.
    They have not improved our rugby.

    Not implying that at all Knower but thanks for putting words in my mouth. There are lots of great Canadian rugby minds out there - Hyde-Lay, Murdy, Johnny Mac, Tate etc. I just feel like the nationality of our coach is not a big issue. I like that people want more Canadian content but don't see those same people on here complaining about having DTH in our centers or Pritchard kicking goals for us.

    As far as Crowley goes - I think with what he had to work with he had us playing some very good rugby. Our attack was far better structured than in previous years. Our players looked a bit worn down as the tournament progressed and our defensive structure broke down as a result. I think the depth of our reserve bench cost us a bit here. You could see the let down when the bench players came on against the French.

    There are many issues in Canadian rugby. I just don't think the nationality of our coach is one of them. And as for the players going over to Wales to play. While it would be great to see them play here at home, you would just here more whining about imported east coasters playing for BC teams! You can't have it both ways. I think we should look at the individual players who were over in Wales and ask if they improved. Jebb Sinclair - drastically improved since playing for Oak Bay. Sean White looked very good. Buydens - very solid. In an ideal world we would have a professional/semi-professional set up in Canada to keep these players home but we don't.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  16. Shameless Homer
    Member

    You know who don't have a problem with Crowley? The coaches listed above.

    As for the Wales project what I see is Sean White, much better. At least he gets to play his position in Wales. Jebb Sinclair, contract with Irish. Chauncey O'toole, contract with Ospreys. Jason Marshall, French contract. Hubert Buydens, huge improvement.

    Canada has gone from losing to Japan 46-8 and 27-6 two years ago to a 23-23 tie where we scored 3 tries to 2. I don't know how you can say this team hasn't improved.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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    Posted 7 months ago

  18. Faust
    Moderator

    So they fell apart for two years after getting rid of Sluggo and they are back way they are 4 years.

    If it was Wales and they were playing elite sides, then yes. But it is North Wales and they were playing B-sides, Russian clubs, and under 21 provincial sides. Northern Wales want to improve their sides better, so they prefer playing local players. $300,000 is quite steep, considering you are making the women and youth pay their own way. Yes, it may help, but is it the best bang for our buck?

    Posted 7 months ago #

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  20. winger14
    Moderator

    I'd say yes. we have players that went there getting the development they needed to step up to a professional league.

    The squad has improved, and with the youth coming up I hope that they get the chance to continue down the path they have started.

    The best thing about Wales is that the players are away from their clubs. If we truly had an elite level set up here that was independent of club rugby, that would be in synch with all provinces, and provided a critical mass of games, then I'd say keep them at home.

    We don't, so Wales is a better option, with better rugby than the club level we get here.

    An improvement I'd like to see is to send coaches over as well.

    Winger14

    Posted 7 months ago #

  21. Frank
    Member

    They went two steps back then one step forward, really are they that much further ahead?

    There are import national team coaches everywhere, Deans in Australia, Robinson in Scotland, O'Sullivan in USA. Mallet in Italy. We got Crowley in Canada.

    My concern is that Crowley and his coaching staff actually show up to monitor training for the next 18 months. If the coaches attending sessions then maybe a few more players might have been better prepared.

    Case in point, if Sean White ever turned up to a strength session and worked out, just think how much better he would have performed at the WC. The stare down during the Haka might have more menacing!!

    Crowley is working with what Sluggo left him. 12 of those players had 8 years of international rugby. They should have been better skilled and better prepared. Either the players didn't live up to expectations or the coaches didn't do a good enough job of getting them prepared. Just one man's opinion!!

    Posted 7 months ago #

  22. Faust
    Moderator

    winger14 said:
    I'd say yes. we have players that went there getting the development they needed to step up to a professional league.

    The squad has improved, and with the youth coming up I hope that they get the chance to continue down the path they have started.

    The best thing about Wales is that the players are away from their clubs. If we truly had an elite level set up here that was independent of club rugby, that would be in synch with all provinces, and provided a critical mass of games, then I'd say keep them at home.

    We don't, so Wales is a better option, with better rugby than the club level we get here.

    An improvement I'd like to see is to send coaches over as well.

    Winger14

    300K can do quite bit of good here in Canada to develop our players, refs, and coaches.If I was NSWT, I would be pizzed off.

    Frank, make that two men's opinion. I still think that we are far away from we should be. I still think the idea od send the backs to high levels tournament, will help their game play.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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