Training and Certification No Longer a Requirement

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Training and Certification No Longer a Requirement

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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

The coach progression in RC was best described as:

• In Training – when a coach has completed some of the required training for a context.

• Trained – when a coach has completed all required training for a context.

• Certified – when a coach has completed all evaluation requirements for a context.

The new RC - NCCP model distinguishes between training and certification. Canadian rugby coaches can participate in training opportunities to acquire or refine the skills and knowledge required for a particular coaching context as defined by their sport. This means nothing unless you speak with a funny little accent.

The New Model

• In Training – must be born in another country and proof that you were inadequate

• Trained – Confused about what kind of training you need to become a RC coach? Get on a plane and move to Alberta as it is the stepping-stone to all national team coaching positions

• Certified – Not necessary any longer. RC will no longer look at coaches who have enrolled in the NCCP.

Not a single national team coach in RC has gone through the NCCP system. All future Canadian coaches with aspirations to coach at the national level should know that the NCCP means absolutely nothing in Rugby Canada.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
newbie
Member

Well thats it then I guess, lets close up shop for a few years and develope some home grown coaches. I for one think we have some damn fine coaches at regional and national levels. Now if you want to talk about certifications and training I think RC would be far better off putting development money into the refs. No offence Harry.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Harry Craig
Member

None taken. I know that some refs need more development but I'm as good as I'm going to get.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
winger14
Moderator

Actually refs get more training than coaches do. Refs on the move, and the elite ones, get coaching reports almost every week.

Coaches get little or no developmental feedback in season. If they are lucky, coaches have a great mentor and soak up the knowledge, and go to a course or two.

Perhaps that explains a few things...

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Harry Craig
Member

I get a lot of feedback on my reffing from the sideline, ocassionally some of it is positive. Quite often it is humourous.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Bandito
Member

Winger, that's an excellent point! I have friends who referee who receive continual feedback and 'coaching' from seasoned veterans, but as a person who's been coaching for 12 years and no one apart from two knowledgeable coaches who I've assisted have ever gave me such support. Because I love it and want to be the best I can be, I've done all my own development.

I take my coaching pretty seriously, having spent most of my time abroad doing just that and not seeing all the touristy things other do. I'm adamant that if we improved the quality and networking potential for coaches in this country, we can better develop the youth and grass roots players which will improve their quality (esp. increasing the numbers and quality of those determined to win national team spots).

Compared to the coach support/mentoring, several-times--season free clinics, networking opportunities, information sharing, etc. I experienced in the UK, NZ and Australia, we've got a long way to go. And I don't think it necessarily needs to cost a lot, either, just a bunch of people willing to get together and actually share information that will benefit entire regions, not just their own clubs.

I gather this occurs in places which still have development officers (anyone know how many there are across Canada?) ... but I'd like to see them move from strictly talking about drills-based learning and transfer more skills / games based learning which will elevate the game sense that our players so desperately lack and pretty much every level compared to their counter parts in more established 'rugby countries.'

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

DH has been employed by RC for 10 months, how many functional RC coaching courses have been accessible during this time? I see there are NO COURSES obtainable through the provincial unions. What is the coaching corridor for Canadian coaches?

Improved coaches equals prospective superior players. RC should have an energetic function in developing home grown coaches. Are they lazy or do they just not know.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

Information obtained from the RC website:

All coaches currently involved in National Team programs as of September 1st 2010 will be permitted to engage in NCCP or NCI programs to gain the minimum requirements below. All Rugby Canada coaching staff must provide in writing a development plan of how they will gain the required minimum level of accreditation. This can be submitted to the Rugby Canada Coach Development Manager with clear outlines and time needed to complete the tasks.

Is GJ certified by NCCP standards?
Is KC certified by these standards?
Is MS a level three NCCP certified coach?
Is JL a certified level four coach?

Did RC follow their own minimum established requirements?

COACH POSITION NCCP ACCREDITATION MINIMUM STANDARDS

Head Coach NSMT 15’s NCCP Level 4 (Certified)
Head Coach NSMT 7’s NCCP Level 4 (Certified)
Assistant Coach NSMT NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)
Head Coach National U20 Men’s Team NCCP Level 4 (Certified)
Assistant Coach U20 Men’s Team NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)

Head Coach NSWT 15’s NCCP Level 4 (Certified)
Head Coach NSWT 7’s NCCP Level 4 (Certified)
Assistant Coach NSWT NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)
Head Coach National U20 Women’s Team NCCP Level 4 (Certified)

CRC Senior Men’s Teams NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)

National Women’s League (NWL) NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified) (Recommendation only)

Head Coach of National Age Grade Teams NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)

Assistant Coach of National Age Grade Teams NCCP Level 2 /Comp Intro (Certified) + Started Comp Dev

Apprentice Coach of National Age Grade Teams NCCP Level 2 or Comp Intro (Certified)

Canada Games Head & Assistant Coach NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)

Western / Eastern Canada Games Head &
Assistant Coach NCCP Level 3 or Comp Dev (Certified)

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Harry Craig
Member

Crowley did all his certification in NZ and it is recognised by RC just as ours is by the NZRU or any other union in membership of the IRB.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
shift
Member

Sorry mr Craig, in fact RC has been scrambling to try and get KC NCCP certified to the mandatory level 4, which he doesn't hold! Just ask Dave Hill

Posted 1 year ago #
shift
Member

One should also ask GJ where all the money went that he took from St Ault when Stu went overseas???? Stu sent GJ his $1500 per month each month, Gj then started paying Luke Cudmore $900 (what a first year card would get) but luke was not carded, GJ opened up a bank acct and would pay luke $900/month from the $1500 he received from Stu. My question is where did the other $600 per month go??? Stu gave roughly six months of his carding to GJ, but the extra money has never been seen.
When Stu got a pro contract his carding was supposed to be taken away, but GJ didn't want to lose out on the money and devised this little scheme behind Sport Canada's back!! Naughty Naughty Mr. John!!!!! Where did all the other money go??? it didn't go to help out any of the carded athletes?????

Posted 1 year ago #
sm00thrider
Member

I would really like to become a carded athlete. Is this procedure common in rugby? Should I contact Sport Canada or Own the Podium to know how to apply for athlete assistance?

Posted 1 year ago #
newbie
Member

yup just what we need is a bunch of "paper smart" coaches. I guess if they have the certificate they must be good.

Posted 1 year ago #
rusty_lock
Member

Is someone seriously trying to suggest that Kerian Crowley is not qualified to be the NSMT coach because he may not have NCCP qualification?

Thats just asinine thinking. While that may be a reasonable requirement to put in place for the hiring of a coach, when someone comes to the table with body of work that KC comes with then exceptions are certainly reasonable and in order.

His resume includes a ten year stint at the helm of Taranaki, a two year stint as an 'All Black' selector and the coach of the 2007 U19 world champions. A reasonble pedigree, to say the least, and certainly ample qualification to coach a tier II nation like Canada.

Posted 1 year ago #
bisquit
Member

I see what you are saying Newbie but in this day and age of elite competition and the big money being spent it is pretty important to make sure the coaches responsible for these teams have the expertise to properly lead and prepare the team. Accreditation is simply a way of making sure a coach has the required understanding of all the support systems needed by the entire on and off-field members of a team to be successful. If a coach or organization expects the athletes to leave no stone unturned in their development, should the same not be applicable to the coaches?
If RC took this attitude with the rest of their employees, then they might have hired a proven leader to run their company instead of someone with a MBA or a proven salesman instead of whatever degree Nick Taylor got the job with.

Understand?

Posted 1 year ago #
bisquit
Member

Rusty, I don't think Crowley is the issue, not for me anyways. John Long, Mike Shelly, Geraint John have recently been put in charge of National programs and I am pretty sure their coaching backgrounds are not quite as prolific as Crowleys'.

Posted 1 year ago #
rusty_lock
Member

With that we're on the same page bisquit. GJ is completely unsuited to coach the 7's team and I think the result in India is a glaring indictment on the administration of RC for its treatment of MW and the appointment of GJ.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Let’s bring into play the TA analogy that he bestowed ST when they fired him. “Just because he has a license doesn’t mean he knows how to drive a car.”

True enough TA, but you must pass the test to drive the car legally.

RC has it in their hiring policies that those are the minimum standards. If they are not to be used then remove them. MS – JL – GJ have all lived I Canada for more then 5 years. It is time they passed their drivers test.

Posted 1 year ago #
Shameless Homer
Member

Now I'm confused. I thought the problem was their accents.

Posted 1 year ago #
irishlock
Member

Frank said:

True enough TA, but you must pass the test to drive the car legally.

Sure. But they don't have to go through the Canadian system to do that. If they have equivalent qualifications from irb accredited courses taken elsewhere in the world I see no problem. To use your license analogy : if you have passed your driving test in another country before coming to Canada then you don't need to retake the test here, just produce your license from another country and the provincial authority will issue a canadian license....

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

Some people just have to complain all the time.

Posted 1 year ago #
bisquit
Member

NCCP recognizes other countries accreditation but the problem is they don't have that either. All they do have for sure is accents.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

If you reside in Canada and hold permanent residence, you need a valid drivers license. Are you telling me the reason that KC & GJ do not drive the Malahat to attend training sessions is because they do not have a valid Canadian drivers license?

It becomes visible that these two gentlemen do not have the certification from Wales or New Zealand. They need to go back to school to become skilled at how to plan / restructure. They dropped the ball big time in this category.

The NSO has reputable minimum coaching standards and they did not follow through with their own written requirements. This is why I suggest that RC do away with the NCCP. It does not hold water in their vision. They hired DH and RC has not had a coaching course in 10 months.

Posted 1 year ago #
admin
Key Master

This is meant to be a Fan Forum not a complain forum sure constructive criticism is alright now and again but the repeated negative posts are tiresome and frankly (no pun intended) lose there effect.

Real change cannot be made by posting on this site.
"Ask not what Rugby Canada can do for you but what you can do for Canadian Rugby"

Posted 1 year ago #
knower
Member

My suggestion would be "Do nothing, Buy nothing, and Send
nothing" to RC until they show some positive RESULTS.
Judge the coaching staff on results, not on where they
were born. We have lots of Canadian coaches who could
do as well as this group of displaced nationals from
New Zealand, Wales, England and Australia. The RC board
is filled with members who think coaches have to have an
accent to be a successful coach. How's that working?

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Do not kid yourself Admin guy. The RC board members read this site and the $1.5 million staff read this site.

Critical or not, it is a viable forum for general discussion.

RC has an operating budget of 10 million dollars. You’re darn right I want to do what they are doing for the minnows!!

I want to know why they fired two seven's coaches who are CANADIAN and better then than GJ from Swansea.

Posted 1 year ago #
AussieBack
Member

Frank, the more you post the more you sound like a flat out xenophobe. When you talk about transparency and accountability, people are listening. When you keep going on with this 'reds under the bed' garbage, you get written off as an angry little man with nothing to offer.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

RC set the coaching guiding principles and didn't follow them. They cannot abide by their own guidelines and yet they want us to bow to their incompetence.

Aussie outback, if you have no place to live you can always come over and squat in my backyard. Bring withcha a slab and we can throw another shrimp on the barby and chatter about the extinction of the koala bear.

Don Cherry

Posted 1 year ago #
newbie
Member

Not really on this topic but how does one get on the board of RC?

Posted 1 year ago #
washedupprop
Member

How are these coaches being fired by the high performance directors? Do they not have contracts? Are their contracts just not being renewed?
High performance coaches need to be treated with the respect accorded the position they hold or nobody is going to want the job. I Don't imagine people are lining up, NCCP documents under their arm, asking to be underpaid and treated like crap. I am sure lots of people have been passed over, but in the poisonous environment of domestic infighting, they were probably lucky they were in the long run. Would the labour board be a viable avenue by the people RC has screwed> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, or so I have heard. No accountability=poor performance.

Posted 1 year ago #