Vancouver Island on Top Again: Receives major investment in Canadian Rugby

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Vancouver Island on Top Again: Receives major investment in Canadian Rugby

(30 posts)

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Posted 9 months ago
Moosehead
Moderator

LANGFORD - In the most significant announcement for the future of rugby in this country, Rugby Canada and the City of Langford revealed today the details of a 10-year partnership in a multi-million dollar rugby complex that will see Langford play home to the Canadian Rugby Centre of Excellence.

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientID=3817&leagueID=0&page=54793

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
Bandito
Member

Great! A pretty venue to try and turn a select few adult players into world beaters.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
Popo
Member

Great facility too bad it does absolutely zero for developing the game anywhere in Canada.

Bang on Bandito.

Once again the tip of the spear gets honed on top of a fragile, broken shaft.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
bisquit
Member

Having a national academy (U20) and world class facilities to support both the elite Men's and Women's teams is sad news?
These so called elites that are trying to represent Canada should just stay put where they are and make their less ambitious recreational club mates better, train a couple of nights a week over a few months of the year. Sorry that makes no sense.

The Pride program placed more players over seas then anything RC has done since. It may have coincided with the decline of Canadian Rugby internationally but a little thing called professionalism happened at that time as well. I believe it slowed the decline of our National teams more then anything else.

Before I waste anytime on the obvious benefits of having sustained periods of time together, please enlighten us all how exactly 50 or so elite players (men and women) that are currently spread out across the entire country are to improve themselves by just staying where they are.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
Popo
Member

Bisquit having a world class facilities is a good thing this is true.

The reason why I am not excited about it is because these funds could be used to develop, build and foster rugby throughout Canada which in my opinion would produce a far better return on Investment. Which is better 50 good players playing against each other in BC or Having 50 or more good players playing against each other in each and every province in Canada?

The more money that keeps getting poured into a select few good players takes us further away from developing and fostering better competitions throughout Canada.

Since when was it Rugby Canada;s role to develop players for professional play in Europe? If that is their goal than all is lost. I personally find it reprehensible that people actually feel that Rugby Canada's goal is produce players for professional play in Europe.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
Moosehead
Moderator

I feel its Rugby Canada's job to field the best Canadian team possible and if that means getting Canadians pro contracts overseas then so be it. Its up to Provincial Associations and clubs to promote the game at the recreational level. If Provincial Associations don't do anything then eliminate them and this level of bureaucracy.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
bisquit
Member

Popo,
I am pretty certain the funds for these athletes are coming from IRB and other directed sources that have expectations of results at the international level, so unlikely RC can direct the money wherever they want. I agree with you wholly that more money needs to invested in developing grass roots rugby, where that comes from I don't know. Clubs and schools are even more guilty of spending money on the few elite recruits out there trying to win meaningless titles, rather then on developing or growing their base.

I do think RC's motto of "Community to Country" is disingenuous as they do little to support the grass root rugby that the term community implies.
I for sure don't believe that taking a few athletes from each region and trying to develop them is a bad thing at all. In fact this may be one of the only things RC does (unknowingly likely) to help grass roots because inevitably these players go back to the clubs/regions better then when they left.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
winger14
Moderator

Bisquit,

We started to slip in the standings once the Pride came into being.

Keep the players in their regions, and keep doing the good work on coaching and we'll be fine over the long haul. BC and RC do not have the world cornered on quality coaching.

BC has it's share. I've seen equally good coaches from the rest of the country. In the smaller provinces they are constrained by the players. If they maximize what they have then they (the coaches) are doing the job.

So not only are we diluting the talent pool across the country by centralizing, we are also doing a dis-service to the coaches who put the time in.

If we were in a domestic professional league (like hockey) it would be a different story.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
knower
Member

COME WEST YOUNG MEN, COME WEST.

Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago
Faust
Moderator

We slipped in the standing when we ignored grassroots rugby and world turned professional. Same guys who bitch about fees and volunteering to help Rugby, are the same shmoes who blow their time and money at the bar.

Look at the volunteer list at National Championship, very few rugby players.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Come WEST and the REST will be BEST

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Barring the sparring with Knower...

Faust's point about the grass roots is bang on. My question: Is that up to Rugby Canada or the provincial and local organizations?

I think that's more of a local issue. Certainly the provinces need to step up on that. I'm not sure what Rugby Canada can do when the provinces would howl at them for playing in their backyard...Sounds almost like a constitutional debate...Funny how we do that as Canadians, but I digress.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
Faust
Moderator

All three. Players like to bitch about funding, but they are also not willing to help out the local high schools in training or encourage the game. Even NHL players help out the young players.

winger14 said:
Barring the sparring with Knower...

Faust's point about the grass roots is bang on. My question: Is that up to Rugby Canada or the provincial and local organizations?

I think that's more of a local issue. Certainly the provinces need to step up on that. I'm not sure what Rugby Canada can do when the provinces would howl at them for playing in their backyard...Sounds almost like a constitutional debate...Funny how we do that as Canadians, but I digress.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
Bandito
Member

winger14 said:

Faust's point about the grass roots is bang on. My question: Is that up to Rugby Canada or the provincial and local organizations?

I think that's more of a local issue. Certainly the provinces need to step up on that. I'm not sure what Rugby Canada can do when the provinces would howl at them for playing in their backyard...Sounds almost like a constitutional debate...Funny how we do that as Canadians, but I digress.

Winger14

I hope someone starts soon. Some free research help for anyone here who coaches and who hasn't seen what national bodies do elsewhere:

[url=http://www.rfu.com/TakingPart/Coach.aspx]null

I was happy getting all my coaching information from this (the once on-going Technical Journal has no new articles any more, however), and the equally good NSW Coaching Resource and New Zealand RU Coaching Toolbox are now by subscription only for 'locals'.

Yes, these are big, rich unions, but Rugby Canada's coaching page is very thin and it seems that the 'manuals' are not of their own creation, but a partnership with a Welsh coach who has a business supplying rugby coaching resources. (Another tip for coaches: his Better Rugby Coaching site has quite a lot of that info for free, just not in neat packages)

The info is out there for people who have the will and know-how to search for it, but I don't think most people at the critical grassroots level have either. A national strategy to provide essential coaching support - both in print and physical with more development initiatives - would really help us at the schools level. I gather some provinces have them, but is it just one or two guys for the whole of each? More would be nice.

Posted 9 months ago #
Bandito
Member

Crap! ... I wrote a rather long response and it was somehow lost. Anyway, the short version:

In reply to winger's question about who should take the lead re: development. Why should it not be a focused national strategy? Other unions are much richer, yes, and we're not likely to get something as rich as the RFU's Coaching page, but more development officers who can offer support to more schools via FREE clinics and resources would really help for future generations of national team players. More and younger kids picking rugby as their main sport as they become more knowledgeable, confident and able in a game that's very different from all that we traditionally play and which most of our kids start way too late. More coaches who are able to create stronger programs in their schools that can challenge the few that tend to win all the medals.

Surely that'd do more to improve our standing at the top level?

Posted 9 months ago #
Moosehead
Moderator

I would like to know what the financial arrangements are? Will they be playing on Fieldturf or natural grass? How are they sharing any potential revenues from events etc? If its a world class training facility they would need access to both natural and artificial playing surfaces.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

I wrote a rather long response and it was somehow lost. Anyway, the short version:

In reply to winger's question about who should take the lead re: development. Why should it not be a focused national strategy? Other unions are much richer, yes, and we're not likely to get something as rich as the RFU's Coaching page, but more development officers who can offer support to more schools via FREE clinics and resources would really help for future generations of national team players. More and younger kids picking rugby as their main sport as they become more knowledgeable, confident and able in a game that's very different from all that we traditionally play and which most of our kids start way too late. More coaches who are able to create stronger programs in their schools that can challenge the few that tend to win all the medals.

Surely that'd do more to improve our standing at the top level?

In our environment, I think the best way forward is that the strategy comes from Rugby Canada, but is delivered by the provinces and local unions. Any strategy has to have the provinces on board, and developed with them.

Rugby Canada, unfortunately, can't deliver at a local level. They can help, guest coaches and such, but actually deliver...no. We haven't got the free finances to do that.

The provinces on the other hand are closer to the ground and have a better chance of delivering. At the youth level, I look at what Ontario has done over the last 10 years, BC too, and there is cause for optimism. I don't see enough of what other provinces are doing, but at a cursory level, Alberta seems to be improving. Hopefully Quebec and Maritimes are going in the right direction too!

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Bandito said:
Crap! ... I wrote a rather long response and it was somehow lost. Anyway, the short version:

In reply to winger's question about who should take the lead re: development. Why should it not be a focused national strategy? Other unions are much richer, yes, and we're not likely to get something as rich as the RFU's Coaching page, but more development officers who can offer support to more schools via FREE clinics and resources would really help for future generations of national team players. More and younger kids picking rugby as their main sport as they become more knowledgeable, confident and able in a game that's very different from all that we traditionally play and which most of our kids start way too late. More coaches who are able to create stronger programs in their schools that can challenge the few that tend to win all the medals.

Surely that'd do more to improve our standing at the top level?

In our environment, I think the best way forward is that the strategy comes from Rugby Canada, but is delivered by the provinces and local unions. Any strategy has to have the provinces on board, and developed with them.
Rugby Canada, unfortunately, can't deliver at a local level. They can help, guest coaches and such, but actually deliver...no. We haven't got the free finances to do that.

The provinces on the other hand are closer to the ground and have a better chance of delivering. At the youth level, I look at what Ontario has done over the last 10 years, BC too, and there is cause for optimism. I don't see enough of what other provinces are doing, but at a cursory level, Alberta seems to be improving. Hopefully Quebec and Maritimes are going in the right direction too!

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
trueviking
Member

always with the negativity on this board.

growing the grassroots of the game and making our national team better are two different objectives....it is a very positive step to bring the top players together to train and improve as a single entity....look what the 'own the podium' programme did for our olympic team.

yes we need to grow the game in communities across the country, but if you look at the number of registered players, we are far ahead of many of the countries ranked around us....the way to make our national team better is to give them the best training possible....spreading the best players across the country with sub par training and coaching does nothing to take the best and push them to the next level.

at the top level our athletes are every bit as good as their counterparts around the world...the difference is that they do not get the training and coaching that players do elsewhere.

making the national team better will help grow the game...give kids something to strive for....growing the game is a two pronged approach and this is an important step in the advancement of the top players...it doesnt mean that we should not still focus on improving the infrastructure provincially, but making our best players better is an important goal.

Posted 9 months ago #
trueviking
Member

those have to be the worst architectural renderings i've ever seen....hopefully the facility is a better quality than the images.

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Improving the grassroots in the long term improves the top level, so they are related.

I agree that a short term objective to improve both of the national senior teams is different. I also agree that it is appropriate for the National Senior teams to train together.

What they do outside of the training when the play is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
clyde
Member

Always with the unreality on this board. The top athletes in this country are not playing rugby, whereas the top athletes in other countries are playing rugby. There is no coaching and no training regimen that would push the current NSMT to the level of the powers in this game. If coaches can teach little kids to run, pass and catch, perhaps the most athletic of these kids can develop the ability to create and see space, and then put the ball into space. But that ain't happening. Alberta is clearly not improving. The absolute thrashing dished out by BC in U18, coupled with the single medal earned in two successive home National Festivals, proves clearly that they are not competitive. The loss last year to Saskatchewan in U20 and the loss this year by the U19 Wolfpack to the Voyageurs also serve to contradict any claim to Alberta's improvement.

Posted 9 months ago #
Bandito
Member

So assuming all national players without professional contracts will be moving to BC, how will future prospects with jobs elsewhere in the country fit in? Will they have to quit, pack-up and move, and hope to find another in the Lower Mainland / on the Island?

Posted 9 months ago #
winger14
Moderator

Hopefully they stay where they are and keep the local competition as strong as it can be. One would think that only the carded players would be directed to go to Langford, as it would be a condition of their carding.

To clyde's point, we need to learn the basic skills, and having these players around so that younger players can see what some of those skills look like will help in the process.

I'd have the top athlete's playing, but not in the premier league, and definitely not as part of a regular premier club. You can't guarantee that these players would get the time they need at the position the National coaches would want them to play, or with the right combinations.

Winger14

Posted 9 months ago #
Frank
Member

Alberta Rugby sucks, there is no direction from their president and the executive director wouldn't know adam from eve.

I now see why Sluggo got the f^ck out of dodge in that set up. It was doomed for failure. The great work by DH and MS over the past 5 years left the rugby in that province in a sh!t heap. Well done, carry on old chaps and you are well on your way in burying RC with shitty paper work.

Alberta Rugby should take all their money and give to the two sub unions.

Posted 9 months ago #
Faust
Moderator

JS has a personality like dead fish on a hot summer day. They relied on poor Helen Wright to fix everything for them. You can add the failure of the Edmonton Gold to that list.

Sluggo got out when he was tagged (like Morgan was also) as not being of the right character from the Gods of RC. He knew his meal ticket did not exist in Alberta anymore plus working USA women 7s and technical director for Alberta was an obvious conflict.

Issue is that RC needs change and when people like Sluggo and Morgan try anything, they canned. Interesting that Sluggo was not offered a contract before RWC 2007 and he had more success against the USA then RC, but Crowley was already resigned.

Posted 9 months ago #
Frank
Member

Hook line and STINKER -
JS has a personality like dead fish on a hot summer day. They relied on poor Helen Wright to fix everything for them. You can add the failure of the Edmonton Gold to that list.

My sources tell me that Sluggo quit during the first week but SN talked him into staying. Sluggo then set the table for AT. Conflict or no conflict there is no one more professional then Sluggo when it comes to drawing the line in the sand.

GB could not control / bully Sluggo and the board had pebbles instead of stones. The RC board turned on Sluggo faster then Paris Hilton in a night vision.

Posted 9 months ago #
Faust
Moderator

Not GB, but the people who put GB there.
I think MW is pretty good at drawing the line also. Still they have not stated why they fired him (a successful coach) and kept an unsuccessful coach.

Frank said:
Hook line and STINKER -
JS has a personality like dead fish on a hot summer day. They relied on poor Helen Wright to fix everything for them. You can add the failure of the Edmonton Gold to that list.

My sources tell me that Sluggo quit during the first week but SN talked him into staying. Sluggo then set the table for AT. Conflict or no conflict there is no one more professional then Sluggo when it comes to drawing the line in the sand.

GB could not control / bully Sluggo and the board had pebbles instead of stones. The RC board turned on Sluggo faster then Paris Hilton in a night vision.

Posted 9 months ago #
trueviking
Member

just realized that this is a plastic pitch....how does that work for rugby?...i didnt realize it was even sanctioned.

seems odd to have our national training centre use a surface that the team will never play on in real games....thats like practicing with a smaller ball than you would use in games.

i wonder what the players think?

the warmest and rainiest place in the country and they cant grow grass?

Posted 8 months ago #
Son of Heavy
Member

it is IRB approved, but thanks for coming out. Would you rather they have the set-up in Oshawa?

True Viking stick to 'improving rugby at a grass roots level' like you and your club have done in Oshawa by bastardizing the Keenan level of play in Ontario.

Posted 8 months ago #